REDEX

[bluegnat]

Hi
Not exactly a problem but I was wondering if anyone has put REDEX or other fuel/injector cleaner into their megane? It's just that I've found some in the garage which I used to use in a Peugeot I had. I was going to throw it in the tank but thought I'd ask if anyone has any bad experiences from it first. Its a 1.9 diesel by the way.
Cheers

[andywills]

someone on the parkers forum had a problem and it was suggested to them to use redex, so you should be fine

[AlexB]

I could not find MSDS for Redex -- it is made in S.Africa, where safety is probably not the main issue... The following are MSDS documents for another popular make also found in Halfords -- Winn's.
DIESEL FUEL CONDITIONER
https://www.wynns.ca/data/msds/english/xtend/67915.pdf

"LOW ODOR PARAFFIN SOLVENT 92.5 64742-47-8 200ppm TLV
DI-TERT-BUTYL PEROXIDE 6.0 110-05-4" (cetane improver... useless if used with British standard fuels)

INJECTOR CLEANER AND CONDITIONER
https://www.wynns.ca/data/msds/english/xtend/61006.pdf

"SOLVENT NAPHTHA MEDIUM ALIPHATIC 60-100 64742-88-7 N/Av N/Av
SOLVENT NAPHTHA, LIGHT AROMATIC 1-5 64742-95-6 N/Av N/Av" (fractions between paraffin and petrol -- paint thinner!)

As you may see these products contain paraffin, cetane improver and solvents (as in paint thinners). Cetane improvers are useless in the UK as our standards are pretty high. So, you just mix a glass of paraffin with a tumbler of paint thinner and enjoy the result... I would rather not!

Forte, Motul and Amsoil products are more complex and they probably work. I am not sure, however, if they are better than, say, using a couple of tanks of V-Power and trying to get as high average speed on the computer as possible. Even better -- spend a couple of days driving in the Alps burning premium fuel and also enjoying great food and local wine...

For upper cylinder lubrication biodiesel (2% -- 100ml of soybean oil per tank) looks like a way to go:
https://inchoate.harm.org/~halbritt/dodg ... e%20V3.pdf
Wait a second! They already do it in the UK by law since April 2008.

[Deano16v]

get yourself on ebay and look for Forte Diesel Treatment. Its not available in the shops. Thats the way forward, its the only stuff ive ever used in any of my cars.

[AlexB]

I would not expect much from it. Similar to Comma, Forte seems to be produced for the UK market only. It is possibly one of old products which were designed to address issues with low-quality diesel of the 20th century. The following is the content of Comma Diesel Magic:

LOW ODOUR PETROLEUM DISTILLATE >90% (high-quality paraffin)
CAS: 64742-47-8
[Xn] R65; [Xi] R66
• ALKYL NITRATE 1-10% (cetane improver... useless under modern fuel standards)
EINECS: 248-363-6
[Xn] R20; [N] R51/53; [Xn] R65
• ALKYL ALCOHOL 1-10% (cold weather additive... in summer)
EINECS: 203-234-3
[Xi] R36/38; [-] R52/53
• ORGANOSILOXANE <1% (removes water... and deposits it somewhere...)
[N] R51/53
• PETROLEUM NAPHTHA <1% (solvent... negligible amount)
EINECS: 265-198-5
[-] R10; [Xi] R36/38; [N] R51/53; [Xn] R65

Use paraffin instead!

Forte do not publish their data, they just make ridiculous claims of cleaning turbochargers, etc., whilst the additive burns well before reaching it. Unknown composition, dodgy marketing -- I would not use it.

As I said before -- fill up with V-Power and give it a good run. Clean burning will shift the dynamic balance of depositing-cleaning in the right direction.

[jooooohn]

ive used redex and it was fine

[bluegnat]

Cheers guys, I'm going on a long motorway run this weekend so I'll put some in when I fill up. I'll let you know if I notice any changes. Like I said I've not bought it for this car and it seems to be running fine but found it in the garage.

[AlexB]

OK, I can see how it can improve things. The additive contains a cetane improver, which helps to ignite fuel at a lower temperature/pressure. This will help in severe winters and in old engines where compression gives up. So, if one wants to dodge MOT failure before selling a banger to a poor punter -- this is a way to go. Otherwise, there were published studies indicating that excess of cetane improver may actually increase soot formation.

With a healthy engine you will probably notice only a slight change in behaviour, but it will go away once the additive is gone. There will be no long-term effects. Fuel consumption on the computer may become lower due to lower viscosity of paraffin -- the ECU will be thinking that it injects less fuel while more fuel flow through injectors per unit of time.

Another use is as someone has suggested to an owner who put a couple of litres of petrol in the tank. The solution was to top it up with diesel, add some 2-stroke oil and one of these additives to compensate for low cetane number of petrol.

This, however, has nothing to do with cleaning injectors.

[Deano16v]

the forte isnt a cetane booster, it has no relation to improving the fuel quality, its all cleaning agents, similar to the reason that Shell dielsel/petrolis different to the supermarkets shell issue to, its the additives put in after.

[AlexB]

It is good if it is so. What is your source of information? Are you sure it does not contain cetane boosters? What additives does it contain which are different from something closely resembling paint thinner, kerosene and 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate as, for example, in Comma Diesel Magic? These components are obviously necessary and this is why they are included in the standard fuels alongside with a few others (see MSDS for diesel fuels), but do we really need more, for example, kerosene, naphtha, etc. than included into bog standard V-Power or Shell Extra?

Finally, why on Earth Forte is not sold abroad like, for example, Amsoil for North American diesel standards and Motul for Europe?

My guess is that Forte is not much better than several products from Halfords... It is definitely not a replacement to what Renault recommends for cleaning injectors (read the manual and technical notes).

the forte isnt a cetane booster, it has no relation to improving the fuel quality, its all cleaning agents, similar to the reason that Shell dielsel/petrolis different to the supermarkets shell issue to, its the additives put in after.

[IainMW]

Can't comment on Redex but I have used Fuel treatments from Millers for years now and been very happy with them.
https://www.millersoils-online.co.uk/1_M ... L-dps4.htm

[AlexB]

Have you read their claims in your link?

It is just a cetane improver and not overly concentrated. 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate can be bought without lies.

[IainMW]

Have you read their claims in your link?

It is just a cetane improver and not overly concentrated. 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate can be bought without lies.

Yes I have and I'm not shocked at all. If you read it the claims are stated as "UP TO" not actual. I have used Millers fuel treatments for 15 years now and I have been very happy with the products and results.

I'm sure if you contacted Millers then they will give you a full technical breakdown on their product.

I'm sorry AlexB but some of your replies to forum members are terrible IMHO, people ask for advice and more often than not often you reply in a no-it-all, abrupt and condescending manner, which is just not necessary.

It's all down to personal choice (like you and your choice of engine oil). Try a product and if it does not work or your not happy with it then don't buy it again!

Bluegnat has stated he was going to try some Redex fuel treatment, if he's happy with the result then he will probably buy it and use it again, if not he won't

[AlexB]

Yes, I am terrible... However, I reply to the best of my limited knowledge, which some may find useful.

As for favourite products, I am not selling anything and the engine oil you mentioned is discontinued. It is not a secret that group 4-5 oils are the best and I only mention this in conjunction with ACEA standards.

Fuel additives are a different issue. We all used them at some point, but just a few of us ever cared to check their content. At some point I looked at a few products and was shocked! In this thread I tried to expose the lies and the mystery behind "aggressive" advertising claiming, for example, "Up to 70% less exhaust smoke, Up to 20% less carbon emissions" etc. Looks like these guys have solved one of the biggest problems of modern world! I am afraid not. If one wants to believe in magic -- declare it as a religion and I will leave you alone... out of political correctness.

There exist two basic types of diesel additives. The first is added in very small amounts (Redex, Millers, etc.) and contains mostly a cetane improver plus colour, plus something masking the smell of 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate. This type slightly changes the feel of the engine, but does not improve fuel consumption and emissions much (there are publications on this subject) if used with high cetane fuels made to British standards. The second type of additive is added in amounts of 200-500ml per tank. These include solvents, which actually clean something, and some other ingredients as in Comma Diesel Magic mentioned in the earlier message. These are better, but don't expect much from their use, unless you _understand_ what they actually do. This is why Renault uses just a degreaser to soak and clean the injectors (the use of anything abrasive or ultrasound machines is forbidden). This product, however, cannot be added to the fuel in the tank as it is aggressive and kills pumps.

[bluegnat]

Just a quick update, travelled over 600 miles on a long journey with some redex in. Could'nt really tell if their was any difference in the performance of the car. MPG might have been a little lower though. Only got an average of 48mpg but I wasn't taking it easy and had the roof box on the car. Probably wont use it again unless I need to.