1.5 DCI, poor cold starting error message on display

[Liam-R]

Ok excellent, I will take a look at the fuelling then...

As I said before.. My fuel line is always drained when I come to it, so there is either a leak at the filter, at the priming bulb, or the NRV to the tank has gone.. but I'm unsure where the NRV is to check/replace it. Any ideas?


Thanks for all your help!

[AlexB]

Liam, I've mentioned the venturi tube. Do you know what it is and where it is in your car?

[Liam-R]

Hi Alex,

Not a clue buddy! Where is it? I could do with having a look at it tbh if its a possible threat.

Any help appreciated.

[AlexB]

Yes, it is a threat. If air is getting into the return pipes from the injectors, then the same air will fill the fuel system through the said venturi pipe. This thing is shown in the manual for your engine. I think there is a section about it. So, visit the sticky thread with manuals. For the physical principles of venturi pipes read wikipedia. These engines frequently suffer problems with the return circuit.

[Liam-R]

Ok right, a small update...

I took Mikes advice, and got a scanner on it, a snap-on one which Im guessing is the same as he used.

It bought up a few fault codes...

one was, GLOW RELAY CIRCUIT (no relay fitted)
Cruise control (not even got cruise control on my car )
MAIN RELAY LOW VOLTAGE

and a few others that didnt really look too terrible.

Anyway, deleted all those, fired the car back up and NO ERROR MESSAGES :D (No service light or Check injection)

Fired it up the next morning, (1 degree on temp) first attempt it started instantly. Amazing.. something must have locked out the starting sequence.

Drove to my mums, (2 hours away) turned into her street and BEEEEEP check injection came back on with service light.

Fired it up this morning, back to the good old white smoke and 4 attempts to get it going.

As I returned back to work today, going down a hill round a bend, everything cut out... steering locked itself and car died. LUCKILY it started again about 3 seconds later, and I didnt roll down the side of a hill. Absolute death trap this car. I was actually scared for my life. If there had of been a truck or something coming around the bend Id have been dead.

I think its fair to say, I will never ever, be purchasing another Renault Megane and this one shall be scrapped to save someone else having that same situation as me and possible dying.

[tomalamix]

great news

now there is a problem, the proper EOBD scanner, what is a good scanner for the 1.5dci ou 1.9? or for the 1.4 16v or 1.6 ?

i think we should create a thread with experiences with different scanners and the results. The snap-on tool is very expensive but it allowed the resolution of the problem, but i believe there are other solutions, more or less expensive. That thread should allow all the users to take a short cut straight to the primary problem with some good info

cheers

[AlexB]

Liam,

Are you saying the steering locked itself while you were still driving?

Why are you still driving a car with a fault? Resetting the fault codes is not a solution to any problem.

[mickeybo]

Hi & hello from mickey bo first post. Hard cold starting on these Renaults is mostly down to fuel pipe connectors drawing air the small green o ring which sits inside fuel pipe connectors after a time they lose their ability to seal(known common problem) Theres a permanent 12v feed via a 70 amp fuse ignition on or off to the glow plugs the glow plugs are only activated by the ecu depending on tempature Like putting a 12v feed to a lamp holder if theres no earth then theres no light Hth Regards Mickeybo

[Liam-R]

Liam,

Are you saying the steering locked itself while you were still driving?

Why are you still driving a car with a fault? Resetting the fault codes is not a solution to any problem.

That is exactly what I'm saying!

I am not driving this car again, It happened on my way back to where I live and work! The car was driving fine then the steering lock and engine problem problem occured when I was driving back to work. I had to drive it Alex, walking 110miles to work is a bit impossible for myself with all my bags from visiting parents (Live and work in the RAF on a camp)

I reset the fault codes as to give an indication of the faults that would re-appear meaning they are obv a problem and not just because Id had the battery disconnected etc.

This is the first time the car had been on a scanner since me buying it last year and I havent been able to take it back to get it scanned again due to the steering locking issue.

[triumph2.5man]

Hello again folks! Well the euphoria did not last long! After 5 good days, the fault returned with a vengeance. The SERVICE light glowed, the "check injection" message reappeared and yes, old smoky was back. This time it was even more difficult to start. In fact I began to despair that it would ever start. After many attempts, I did get it running but the clouds of smoke were worse than ever and took longer to clear. But once again, after they had cleared, the car ran as well as ever!
Out with the Snap-On scanner again. Showed 2 DTCs One was a problem with throttel pedal tracks but the main one, as before, referred to injector no 2. The error read, "injector no 2 control at minimum". What the hell does that mean? The scanner gave no indication.
Once again, carried out injector test and cleared the codes. Warning lights went out and car ran perfectly. This time I removed injector no 2 (flywheel end!) and took to my local Fuel Injection Specialist to have the injector tested. This is where main dealers go when they have problems they cannot solve. There I met an elderly gent who said he was fed up with all the problems of modern diesels and could not wait to retire. That sounded promising! He tested the injector and declared it to be a little worn with minimal leak-back and would probably last a couple more years. Cost me a tenner.
For the next week, no problems until yesterday when the problem returned with a super vengeance! This morning I was unable to start it at all. I tried the trick of disconnecting the supply to injector no 2 (thus deactivating it) but it showed no sign at all of wanting to start (I thought it might run on 3 cyls.) With no 2 reconnected, the engine would "kick" but could not be made to run despite all attempts to "catch" it on the throttle.
It seems to me that the existence of the warning lights is actually preventing the car from starting and once they have been extinguished, starting is normal (until the next error arises......)
Anybody got an opinion on this view of mine? Have you come across this before?
As far as I can see the system is not in LOS (limp-home, limited operating strategy) since it gives full power once running.
I could buy another injector but they are expensive and used ones (Ebay) are a silly price with no guarantee they will work.
I am not convinced that replacing the injector will do any good anyway.
Come you on you lot! Anybody got any ideas?
Next job will be to carry out further diagnostics and a leak-back test and take it from there. I have a reputation for being a tighta**e (so I am told) but looks as if I will need to be spending a bit of money. More intense diagnostics might reveal a problem but are not likely to cure it.
Thanks, Mike

[AlexB]

Liam,

It's very serious. Call Renault UK and, probably, solicitors. Are you sure it was a lock rather than loss of power steering?

It is serious because the lock is specifically designed with multiple redundancy in its locking function in order to avoid this threat. It is a pretty much universal solution used by many manufacturers in many cars. Whoever are supplying the parts of the system might be also interested in your case.

In general, safety critical systems are fault tolerant. This, however, is only true for single faults. Never operate a safety critical system where a fault is present, because it may fail under the second or n-th fault. Any fault in such systems must be detected diagnosed and repaired.

Liam,

Are you saying the steering locked itself while you were still driving?

Why are you still driving a car with a fault? Resetting the fault codes is not a solution to any problem.

That is exactly what I'm saying!

I am not driving this car again, It happened on my way back to where I live and work! The car was driving fine then the steering lock and engine problem problem occured when I was driving back to work. I had to drive it Alex, walking 110miles to work is a bit impossible for myself with all my bags from visiting parents (Live and work in the RAF on a camp)

I reset the fault codes as to give an indication of the faults that would re-appear meaning they are obv a problem and not just because Id had the battery disconnected etc.

This is the first time the car had been on a scanner since me buying it last year and I havent been able to take it back to get it scanned again due to the steering locking issue.

[postieboy]

How have you guys got on? Very good thread,hope you got it sorted.
My megane 1.5 diesel usually starts ok but on some ( not all) cold damp mornings struggles to fire up and blows loads of smoke when it does fire up. I did also think ( key Card again) the glow plugs where not being given enough time to warm up before attempting to try and fire up, as with a normal key you usually wait till the light goes out before attempting to fire up. I also wondered if it was over fuelling. Not such a big deal for me at the moment as its only occasionally.
Just picking up some tips just in case it gets worse.

[AlexB]

The glow plugs are on a timer, whose delay depends on temperature. See the manual for the delay values, they are up to 10 seconds in frost.

Well, it's not overfuelling in a usual sense, but close enough. Many starting problems cause fuel accumulation and smoke. It can be also a leaking injector. Make sure the glow plugs are working and the starter turning the engine fast enough. Is the battery good?

[Matureowner]

Hey guys, hope you don't mind if I join your little thread. I just bought a 1.5 dci off my son-in-law which has a similar problem. I have no previous experience of diesels but am interested by the various attempts to solve what appears to be a fairly common problem on this engine. Before the car was removed from the garage which had attempted unsuccessfully to rectify the problem they had replaced the glow plugs and control unit and a fuel pipe which they thought was kinked between the pump and injectors. The only clue the garage was able to provide was that they had checked the fuel pressure whilst cranking the engine which was 80 bar rather than the 200 bar specified. This was whilst providing a gravity feed of fuel directly to the pump thus ruling out an air leak or partially blocked filter on the inlet side. Does this narrow it down to either a pump issue or a leaking injector pulling the system pressure down?
When I picked the car up from the garage it would not start on the car's battery but fired up quickly with the assistance of an auxiliary battery turning the engine over more quickly. Once started the car runs fine and will restart while still warm!
Any advice would be appreciated.

[triumph2.5man]

Hi folks, I started this thread over 2 months ago and have at last solved the problem. The thread has grown to an enormous length and has at times meandered off topic.
I propose to end this now and start a new thread which will explain the action I took and save interested members ages searching through posts!
I will attach a link to the new thread when I have completed it.
Cheers, Mike
See this; viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22727#p126214