1.9dci start-up hesitation after head refitted

[grego]

The joys of Renault ownership...

Brief background - was getting "Check Injection" light constantly on, regardless of engine temp. "This is going to cost me..." I figured. In my infinite non-mechanical wisdom I opted to buy a set of glow plugs cos if that fixed it, it would be cheaper than the alternative. WRONG! I forgot to factor in my own mechanical ineptitude....

Let's skip the embarrassing details and jump to the bit where I pull up at my local garage to ask them to remove the snapped plug in my engine...
Suffice to say, Easi-Out attempts failed, so did drilling and the head came off.

Picked it up this afternoon (after waiting 3 weeks... that's another story...) and £300 bill (200 labour plus gasket and some other bits) heading back tomorrow as his borrowed "brain reader" is available to try and diagnose the service light fault.

Anyways - plug was duly removed, interior duly caked in mechanic-shite, all plugs checked as fine, "Check Ignition" light still on and also... now finding that the engine makes a half-cough or skip or hesitation when it starts up now. Every time. Doesn't threaten to not start - just take an extra half a sec or so to fire. Also sounds noisier - chuggier I guess.

Any ideas?

Also seems like the consumption is better by about 3-4 mpg (48 rather than average of 44 for the same journey I do twice a day) - might be just a more cautious driver after 3 weeks of meganelessness though...

[grego]

The saga continued and, in fact, continues...

Please see end of my post to skip to my new question - otherwise, background follows below:

The day after I posted the original message, the car stalled on first start-up, after that it was fine. The day after, stalled 3 times and was rough for a few seconds after firing. The day after, stalled seven times and ran very rough around 1000 revs.

I recognised a trend - it was getting worse

Took it to Renault (crap indy garage failed to read the clip again) who swiftly identified need for a new air flow meter and (possibly unrelated??) wiring corrosion in the heating circuit loom. No more "Injector Light" but aparently still running rough. Advised to return to original indy garage with "suspected bent valve"

Even with my extremely limited mechanical incompetence, this seemed odd as a bent valve would surely have failed the compression test that my indy garage said they did after the rebuild and surely would not be a worsening problem...? Renault also removed each injector cable in sequence and found that engine note was unchanged when no.3 cyclinder wire was removed - suggesting problem on that cycl.

Indy garage collected from Renault, sat on it for a week and now poised, after basically no investigation, to replace the manifold gasket.

So my questions:

Would the manifold gasket be disturbed during a "routine" head removal/replacement (i.e. if it is thus gasket, is it the fault of the indy garage?)

Would the manifold gasket cause the symptom of "engine note unchanged when no.3 injector unplugged" as well as engine running rough ?

Any help or comment gratefully received...

[AlexB]

https://www.meganeownersclub.co.uk/forum ... 6854#36854

[grego]

Thanks Andy - I actually have the manual already and keep it in (what i thought) was the most logical place - in the car. Not much to help me prepare for an informed discussion when I go to collect it from the mechanic...

Can anyone else help...? I know everyone wants an answer from you - but can you shed any light, WebCode?

[AlexB]

Sorry, I meant the link at the bottom of that post. According to what you'll find there (in French), the answers to your questions are No and Not_applicable (section 11A).

If one cylinder is not working, then they should have checked the wiring, compression and the injector itself. It is possible that dirt was introduced into the ramp during repairs. You are right, a bent valve must show in the compression check.

[grego]

Oh I'm so SICK of this...

Andy - thanks for your help - it has put an interesting context to latest developments.

I collected the car from the indy garage today, convinced I would have a large repair bill for the manifold gasket I saw them replacing. I was pleasantly surprised when I didn't have to pay.

Took the car back to work - 2 mins away and all seemed OK.

Started it 4 hours later - hesitated slightly (1 cylinder missing?) and a nice blue cloud of smoke followed. Started and stayed running but all the way home it's been really noisy and shaking at idle revs. From the outside it sounds like an old hackney cab it knocks so much. Sounds awful.

What should I do? Clearly it isn't right yet but there's no way I'm taking it back to the sh*t place it just back from...

I leafed through my Haynes manual and looked at symptoms - blue smoke and rough running (possible slight misfire?) and the only thing that matches both symptoms seems to be the injectors... They were supposedly checked by Renault when it went there 2 weeks ago. I have no warning lights or anything. I'm really stuck what to do now. I'd decided that if all was fine, it would go up for sale this evening as I was sick of ongoing problems, but it is unsaleable right now.

Is there anywhere I can go to get a truly independent assessment / repair that would bind the indy garage (assuming it was their fault - which right now seems incredibly likely) to cover the cost of repairs done elsewhere? I also need a courtesy car in the meantime. I've been using my wifes at much inconvenience to both of us for 5-6 weeks and it is frankly causing friction...

PLEASE please someone advise me how to proceed... I'm truly at my wits end

[IainMW]

You can get the AA or RAC to do an Engineers inspection, but it will cost you money.

Other than the Check Injection message before you broke the glow plug and the head was taken off, were there any running problems?

Suffice to say, Easi-Out attempts failed, so did drilling and the head came off.

This really worries me Particularly the drilling bit
How did the independent garage finally remove the broken Glow Plug?
It is possible that some damage may have been done to the combustion chamber on that cylinder, or one or more injectors have been damaged in some way? The other thing is that they may have got the engine timing wrong which will cause the car to run rough.

It's upto the garage to fix the problem, that it would appear they have introduced?
You have to go back and explain camly the problems you are now having?

[grego]

REALLY appreciate your input Iain - thank you.

No problems prior to the glow plug issue - just the service light. Otherwise it was running sweet.

Would AA/RAC have the equipment to diagnose to the right level of detail (wondered if I should ask Renault to do it instead?)

I believe they removed the plug by drilling it out but the element fell into the cylinder...? Can't remember what I read of others' problems and what they told me now...

Important point though is that on my invoice from Renault, they stated that removing the injector [something] from each cylinder in turn caused the engine note to change, as expected on all but one cylinders. The cylinder at fault was NOT the one with the glow plug problem.

Timing HAS been mentioned though they insist they timed it right. They didn't replace cam belt - I know nothing but wonder if any stretch in the belt may be making the timing-up process (done by "lining up the marks"?) inaccurate. Engine's only done about 30k.

Key symptom seems to be the blue smoke - but don't know why its blue.

Current plan is to go in tomorrow, ask them to sit in while it idles and ask if they feel they resolved the problem. If not I will suggest I get Renault to diagnose and they settle the bill and fix. ..

Please keep the suggestions/advice coming.

[IainMW]

Would AA/RAC have the equipment to diagnose to the right level of detail (wondered if I should ask Renault to do it instead?)

Yes they will have, AA inparticular as they provide the 3 year assistance for all new Renaults.
Renault are the obvious option, both will cost you more money though

I believe they removed the plug by drilling it out but the element fell into the cylinder...?

Ooo, If the engine was run or turned over with this still in the cylinder, then that could have done damage to any number of things; - piston crown, head, cylinder wall or valves? You would think that the garage would have picked up on any damage to these whilst the head was off though? A compression test would tell you if something was wrong on any of the cylinders.

Important point though is that on my invoice from Renault, they stated that removing the injector [something] from each cylinder in turn caused the engine note to change, as expected on all but one cylinders. The cylinder at fault was NOT the one with the glow plug problem.

You need to get your Renault garage to explain this in detail to you.

They didn't replace cam belt - I know nothing but wonder if any stretch in the belt may be making the timing-up process (done by "lining up the marks"?) inaccurate. Engine's only done about 30k.

The timing could be out, but the car would have run like a bag of s**t as soon as it was restarted after the head was replaced. Not much experience of timing belt failure but I don't think they stretch to the degree that the timing would go out significantly. Usually teeth get stripped off and then the timing can slip, or the belt just breaks. Either way it would have made sense to put a new belt on whilst the head was off.

Blue smoke can be a number of things, engine oil, or unburnt Diesel (which is more white in colour)

[grego]

Thought I'd post an update as this chapter finally drew to a close last week (only took 3 months to sort it out).

They agreed for Renault to do a diagnosis - this was at my request to speed things up and get an independent(ish) view on the situation. It confirmed no compression in one of the cylinders. They also readjusted the valve timing (only way to "check" it I'm told is to simply reset to what they should). The adjustment made a world of difference alone but still not 100%.

Took report to the indy garage who provide me with a loan vehicle (a dirty nasty sh*ttip of a van (!!) but was grateful for even that.

The head was sent away to a specialist at their cost, who confirmed and fixed a problem where "two valve were not seating properly..." (think this was the phrase used). Suffice to say, runs like a dream now.

Polished it up and had it up for sale the same night - my megane days are over! Replaced with a Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch (DCi 150).

So one chapter over... inevitable another chapter started two days later. Short story is - I was moving the megane to a more prominent place yesterday (local supermarket) so people could see the "for Sale" sign. End of the day was moving it to bring it back home and had brain fade - forgot to account for a bollard in the car park and have f*cked the rear wheel arch in...

I am the world's biggest prat. Have posted for more advice on another thread. Just when i needed a quick sale - currently paying 2x insurance and finance

[IainMW]

Result at last!

Sorry to hear of you're little accident, I backed into a metal fence at work a few weeks ago and sratched my bumper (Chips Away repair I think?)

Good luck with the new motor