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jon letemps
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Postby jon letemps » Mon May 14, 2007 1:06 pm

Megane ii 2004 1.9 dCi (120bhp) 30,500 miles on clock.
As with many people I've been using a semi-synthetic 5W40 and have recently completed 3rd Oil/Filter change. Having read dozens of articles, forum posts, consulted experts (& Renault Dealers !!) I'm convinced that Fully synthetic is the 'way to go'......... Opie Oils have a good choice with Amsoil being their premium oil, but, has anyone used Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40 ?? It looks good on paper and its much cheaper than the others. I'm considering giving it try.

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IainMW
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Postby IainMW » Mon May 14, 2007 1:27 pm

If your using 5W40 oil now then that's already Fully Synthetic.

I'm sure AlexB has been using Motul stuff for a while now, but to quote WebCode

Any 5W40 Fully Synthetic oil that meets the ACEA B3/B4 standard is sufficient.
Most decent motor factors will sell quality oils. Millers, Comma, Duckhams, Castrol, etc..

Opie Oils have some good stuff, and will give you very good advice.
I buy all mine from eBay from Lubetech oil supplies
I'm running on this at the moment
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FULLY-SYNTHETIC-5 ... dZViewItem
Make improvements, not excuses!
Laguna III 2.0dCi 150 Dynamique Hatch. Pearl Black, Panoramic Sunroof, Front & Rear Proximity Sensors, 17" Spider Alloys (with B****y expensive tyres fitted!)

jon letemps
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Postby jon letemps » Tue May 15, 2007 8:53 am

IainMW
Ive been using Castrol Magnatec GTD (5W40)which is a SEMI-synthetic !! and have already been in touch with Guy and Simon on several occasions.
I'm still asking....Has anyone used The Motul 5W40 ???

Oh! and by the way, this is what Simon of Opie Oils thinks about Exol Optima oil.

John,
Ahh now I see why the price is as it is.
It meets two specs from VW and MB, that looks impressive until you see which ones they are.
These specs VW505 and MB229.1( are completely out of date, they are in fact early 90's specs)

It depends what car you are putting it in but in reality, this so called synthetic oil (which will be no more than a hydroprocessed mineral oil) is no better than the likes of a semi-synthetic 10w-40 costing the supplier around £1 per litre so therefore pennies to blend. Good oil - Think not, cheap oil - yes.

You always get what you pay for I'm afraid, it's better than no oil but not a good one.

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IainMW
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Location: In the Foot Hills of the Valley of the Pie Eaters!

Postby IainMW » Tue May 15, 2007 11:13 am

Jon letemps

Much has been written about the "different types" of Fully Synthetic oil available, which I have read. This was posted by oilman himself
https://www.meganeownersclub.co.uk/forum ... highlight=
If you had stated that you were using Castrol GTD Magnatec 5W40 then I would have posted a little differently.

The majority of 5W40 oil available on the market is fully synthetic, Castrol are obviously one exception to the rule.

If Simon is recommending you a specific oil, then take his advise, after all that is his business.

Renault state that for the 1.5/1.9dCi engines the oil must meet the ACEA B3 B4 classification which most 5W40 fully synthetic oils meet (Exol being one of them) there is nothing stopping you from using an oil that exceeds these specifications.

I have used this oil for many thousand miles without any problems, like wise I used to use Castrol GTD magnatec 10W40 for thousands of miles before that.

It's your choice what you put in your car, If you take your car to Renault for servicing you will probably get a typical 5W40 oil put in and get charged a lot of money for it, unless you supply your own oil.

So to answer your original question I don't know if anyone has experience of that particular oil, but as I said AlexB has posted about Motul oil before.
Make improvements, not excuses!
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Postby AlexB » Wed May 16, 2007 10:01 am

Yes, I am using Motul 8100 E-Tech 0w-40. It is a good oil, changing it every 9k, which is half-way between services. The blotter test shows that it is still good when drained, so it might go a slightly longer distance. The EGR valve is clean and the level stays constant within 9k miles. I do many short journeys.

There was a lengthy discussion on oils in this forum some time ago. I managed to convince myself that an ester-based oil is the way to go. Motul Excess 5w-40 uses a cheaper base stock, so it might be adequate, but not as good. I am also convinced that for short journeys in winter a 0w-... oil is beneficial even in the UK.

In a nutshell, the best and, possibly, excessive in its quality is a fully synthetic oil, base stock group 4 (PAO) or 5 (esters), with reasonably high Total Base Number TBN (about 10), ACEA B4, 5w-40 or 0w-40. Note, that most 5w-40 oils on the market are "fake" synthetics, which are hydrocracked mineral oils of group 3. Many of them are not too bad. A couple of examples are Total Q-9000 5w-40, which is similar to the recommended Elf, and (most likely) Shell 5w-40. In any case, buy only an oil with known TBN, as this parameter is directly linked to the length of drain intervals. See the next message by Oilman for more comments -- better fuel needs a lower TBN...

We also had a relevant discussion here:
https://www.meganeownersclub.co.uk/forum ... php?t=4518

I agree with IainMW regarding:
"...If you take your car to Renault for servicing you will probably get a typical 5W40 oil put in and get charged a lot of money for it, unless you supply your own oil..."
In fact, they attempted to sell to me a 10w-40 semi-synthetic oil, which is unsuitable for turbo-DCI engines.
Last edited by AlexB on Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby oilman » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:59 am

For a stock road used Megane a 5w-40 synthetic either hydrocracked or not is fine. The need for a proper pao/ester oil only really occurs when the car is modded or used on track as you will require a higher level of protection.

As for TBN's you may find these comments of interest!

Quote a well respected oil chemist.

The statement: ‘The higher the Total Base Number the more of the expensive stuff is in the oil to make it last the duration…’ is so totally wrong that it’s difficult to decide where to start. Also if ‘….all of the above are over 12’, they should only be used in large diesel engines, not high-compression petrol (gasoline) motors.

Perhaps I should start at the beginning. In the late 1940’s the first attempts to improve engine cleanliness and extend drain periods were made. One successful idea was to add oil-soluble detergents called sulphonates to the oil. These were made by neutralising sulphonic acids with ‘bases’ (alkalis) such as calcium hydroxide and magnesium hydroxide, giving calcium and magnesium sulphonates. The trouble was, the acidity of used oil deactivated these compounds, leading to black sludge formation just as in the ‘straight oil’ days. So, an attempt was made to keep the oil slightly alkaline to provide a good environment for the detergents.

The way this was done was to add more base than was necessary for neutralisation during detergent manufacture; this is why the resulting cheap and effective compounds were (and are) known as ‘overbased sulphonates’. The degree of overbasing is measured in the lab by neutralising the detergent with acid of known strength, and calculating the alkalinity equivalent as ‘milligrams of potassium hydroxide (KOH) per gram of sample’(mg KOH/g), so if a gram of a particular overbased sulphonate is equivalent to 100 mg. of KOH it is said to have a Total Base Number of 100. Obviously, if 5% of this is added to a neutral mineral oil, the resulting mix will have a TBN of 5.

Why does oil get acidic in the first place? Originally because of oxidation to weak organic acids by oxygen in the air, but even in the 1950s this was virtually eliminated by efficient antioxidant chemicals. Even so, engine oil still became acidic due to sulphur in fuels. When sulphur-containing fuels burn, the well-known ‘acid rain’ gas sulphur dioxide is produced; this combines with water, also arising from combustion, and some of the resulting acid finds its way into the oil. So overbased detergents are still needed, but how much? Adding an excess for no good reason (such as it doesn’t cost much) is not good practice, because these additives leave a hard white ash (this is lime, in the case of calcium types) which causes pre-ignition in petrol engines, and impedes gas flow in diesels.

Over time, even the best oil-control piston rings allow a little oil to escape into the combustion chambers such that ash build-up is a long-term problem, so much so that many oil specs include a maximum ash level. For example, the JASO MA motorcycle oil spec. includes an ash top limit of 1.2%, limiting the TBN to about 9. Any oil with a higher TBN will have an excessive ash content, making it unsuitable for any Japanese 4-stroke motorcycle manufactured later than 1998. However, a TBN of 7 to 9 is more than adequate for any present-day petrol engine running on current low-sulphur fuel. Even if the oil is used for several times the recommended drain period, a TBN of 9 still gives a considerable safety margin.

Oils for small diesel engines used to have fairly high TBNs (9 to 11) to deal with the old high-sulphur diesel, but modern low-sulphur diesel means that small passenger car diesels only require similar TBNs to petrol engines. Only large HGV engines which cover very high mileges between oil drains need TBNs of 12 or more.

If there is still anyone out there who is convinced that high TBN is a ‘must have’, then there are plenty of truck 15W/40s available at six quid a five litre can! If you really want to push the boat out, go for the 80 TBN monogrades which are fed continuously to the cylinder walls of 40RPM /1.5million cc marine diesels. These run on residual fuel (‘Bunker C’) of such massive sulphur content that the cylinder bores would almost dissolve without high TBN lubricants. (….But the minimum order is one tonne!)

Unquote:

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AlexB
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Postby AlexB » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:04 pm

Very interesting reading, indeed!

Some time ago I looked at MSDS of several brands and found that the latest products generally have a lower percentage of calcium containing chemicals. The above quote explains it!

It also seems that on average the 0w... oils contain less calcium than 5w... oils. Well, MSDS are imprecise, but is it possible that the basestock quality has an effect on the required amount of TBN improvers?
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Postby oilman » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:59 pm

In short, yes

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IainMW
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Location: In the Foot Hills of the Valley of the Pie Eaters!

Postby IainMW » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:01 pm

Oilman Wrote:
If you really want to push the boat out, go for the 80 TBN monogrades which are fed continuously to the cylinder walls of 40RPM /1.5million cc marine diesels. These run on residual fuel (‘Bunker C’) of such massive sulphur content that the cylinder bores would almost dissolve without high TBN lubricants. (….But the minimum order is one tonne!)


Do you think we'd get discount if we all clubbed in? :lol:
Make improvements, not excuses!
Laguna III 2.0dCi 150 Dynamique Hatch. Pearl Black, Panoramic Sunroof, Front & Rear Proximity Sensors, 17" Spider Alloys (with B****y expensive tyres fitted!)

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Postby oilman » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:46 pm

You already get discounts here

https://www.opieoils.co.uk

Use the Members Section :wink:

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andrew_s46
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Postby andrew_s46 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:12 am

How much oil does the 1.9dci require?

also how do i get a password for the members section on https://www.opieoils.co.uk ?

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IainMW
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Posts: 1549
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:48 pm
Currently Drives:: Laguna III 2.0dCi 150 Dynamique Hatchback. Pearl Black, Panoramic Sunroof, Front & Rear Proximity Sensors, 17" Spider Alloys (with B****y expensive tyres on!)
Location: In the Foot Hills of the Valley of the Pie Eaters!

Postby IainMW » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:21 am

4.8 litres including filter

Follow the instructions in the "Enter Members Section" and you will get access granted to you buy Simon or Guy

:tu
Make improvements, not excuses!
Laguna III 2.0dCi 150 Dynamique Hatch. Pearl Black, Panoramic Sunroof, Front & Rear Proximity Sensors, 17" Spider Alloys (with B****y expensive tyres fitted!)


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