Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

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fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:52 am

I have a 2006 Megane II Sports Tourer with 1.5 DCI.my first Renault and a delightful car,
BUT!
Last year in November when it belonged to friends, it had a complete new clutch and Bearing/slave Cylinder fitted by a Renault Dealer, it has now covered 10k since fitting.
Just before Christmas while driving the pedal suddenly went to the floor and I could hardly get it in gear, eventually it went completely, and I came home on the back of a recovery wagon.
A local mechanic/friend who I use, bled the clutch,this worked ok for about 6 miles then it went again.
Being that a new slave cylinder had been fitted recently, we changed the clutch master cylinder and bled it, all ok for 5 days and about 140 miles, then yesterday I lost the pedal again, and it's near impossible to get in gear, I managed to get it home but that's it, and it certainly can't be driven.
My thoughts (Hopes) are that this will hopefully cure the problem.
But if it doesn't where do I go from here? forget taking it to a dealer, I just can't afford to.
With the Slave cylinder being changed 10k miles ago, and the Clutch master cylinder changed 140 miles ago, what else is there that can go wrong? the Haynes Manual mentions changing seals on the pipe ends if necessary, but is this likely, and are they available?
There are no signs of a leak anywhere and the brake/clutch reservoir is full. Any thoughts would be helpful :banghead
Brian

Keyholder81
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:40 pm
Currently Drives:: Ford grand cmax
Renault grand scenic 1.9 dci 130
Landrover freelander 1, 1.8
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby Keyholder81 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:25 pm

Are you sure that all the air is out of the system ??

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:55 pm

To be honest I'm hoping that's the problem, but being 79 years old i have to rely on someone else to do the job these days, with a bit of luck he'll be around later today.
But thank you, nice to know someone else has the same thoughts as myself. I'll keep you posted.
Brian

Keyholder81
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:40 pm
Currently Drives:: Ford grand cmax
Renault grand scenic 1.9 dci 130
Landrover freelander 1, 1.8
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby Keyholder81 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:00 pm

Your guy needs to attach a bit of clear piping to the bleed nipple with a syringe on the end of it. Approx 3 ft long.

Fill the brake res up. Let the fluid fill the clear pipe up about 1 ft then push the syringe down and force the fliud into the csv..

Which gives you 2 soruces of input and the air is forcefully removed :)

Back up into the res.. make sure the syringe is higher than the reservoir.

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:06 pm

So far so good, 35 miles and all is well, and reservoir keeping it's level.
Fingers crossed that's it, thank you gentlemen :cool:

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:07 pm

Well it's gone and done it again :roll: at 94 miles, no problems up to then, all of a sudden the pedal seemed to stick down. I managed to get the car home again, 6 miles, then I hooked my shoe under the pedal and managed to get the pedal back up, whereupon everything seems ok again!
Looking through the Haynes manual there doesn't seem to be any adjustment possible, so is the pedal going over centre, and if so why? any comments or ideas welcome.
There are no leaks and the reservoir level has remained full. :banghead
Brian

grandadbobby
Advanced Driver
Posts: 435
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Currently Drives:: megan dynamique estate 1.9dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby grandadbobby » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:27 pm

Hi,
next time the pedal sticks down, undo the top on the reservoir to see if it returns by itself.
If it does, that means the vent in the top is blocked preventing air flow.
I believe there is a valve between the master and slave supposed to reduce vibration in the pedal, but can't find it in the Haynes almost useful manual.
It's another useless component thought up by a tw@ in a white coat and a degree from university who probably doesn't drive, never mind fix anything.
Possibility though of that going wrong.
Otherwise, I think it must unfortunately be the slave cylinder faulty.
Another brilliant idea to hide it in the bell housing by a white coat with a degree who probably couldn't change a three pin plug.
Had my say, sorry about that.
Good luck
Bob.

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:52 pm

Thanks Bob ,
I'll give it a try!
The slave cylinder was changed when the clutch was changed just over a year and about 10,000 miles ago, although at the time the car belonged to friends who had owned it from New.
I must agree with most of your other comments, particularly about the Muppets who decided to put the slave cylinder in the bell housing, and make it part of the release bearing, this is the first time I've come across this retrograde step, and couldn't believe that such a simple component to change had been made so difficult. :mad
The Haynes manual implies that the valve isn't fitted to all the clutch system, but doesn't elaborate or give any further details, very annoying.
Brian

grandadbobby
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Posts: 435
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Currently Drives:: megan dynamique estate 1.9dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby grandadbobby » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:24 pm

Hi Brian,
I believe those valves are fitted to most systems now. It
would have to be leaking for your symptoms and I'm sure you would have noticed it.
As the pedal stuck down but the clutch had returned to give drive, it must be the slave at fault in my opinion.
My grandson suffered the same scenario, his slave wasn't very old either, did the master etc, ended up with new clutch etc again.
Nowadays there generally isn't a drain hole in the bell housing for fluid to escape, it will collect there unnoticed.
Mass produced parts and bad designs are what we are up against.
Good luck
Bob.

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:00 am

Hi Bob,
Well that was a disappointment, I'd hoped when I got the pedal back it had sorted itself out temporarily, no such luck it lasted for about half a mile then It started all over again, I just managed to get it home.
When the pedal stuck down I did as you suggested and removed the reservoir cap, probably wishful thinking but I thought I heard a hiss as I removed it, however nothing happened and the pedal stayed firmly down.
I just can't understand why the clutch should last about 100 miles or so after it has been bled before the pedal sticks down, and I can't change gear.
I'm so peed off with it I think I've got to get a Renault dealer to have a look, anyone any idea how long the work to fit a new clutch and slave cylinder/release bearing would be warranted for, being it had all been replaced about 10,000 miles previously in November 2016.?
This is my first Foray into owning a renault, and it's likely to be the last unless I can get this sorted, but reading feedback on Renault Dealers and Customer Care, doesn't make feel confident at all they can be bothered to help anyone


Brian

grandadbobby
Advanced Driver
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:05 pm
Currently Drives:: megan dynamique estate 1.9dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby grandadbobby » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Hi Brian,
ask the previous owner if they still have a record of the work carried out, though I suspect that after 12 months the garage won't want to know.
It wouldn't hurt to see what they have to say though, you might at least get our diagnosis confirmed.
Otherwise, it will pay to shop around clutch specialists for prices and guarantees.
I have to say that this problem exists for most makes of car, many use this system. My grandson's was a Vauxhall.
Reading the forums and from my son's experience, the automatics are a terrible liability, gone all electronic to change gear that bit quicker.
Reliability and keep it simple has gone out the window.
Bob.

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi Bob,
Spoken to the Dealer who fitted the clutch this morning, or at least their parts department man, he said there would only be a 12 month warranty on the work, so that's out the window.
However I have found the valve, I was expecting a small component but in fact it's quite large and looks like my rubber cased tyre pressure gauge!
From old postings on other forums, it contains a rubber diaphragm, and when you press the clutch pedal you can hear and feel it move, As it's about the only damned thing that hasn't been replaced, and as I have 157,000 miles on the clock I'm going to change it, it comes complete with all the pipe from the reservoir to the slave cylinder bleed nipple, unfortunately another £63 and promised delivery to them for Tuesday, I did ask to speak to someone in service but was told they'd need the vehicle to diagnose the fault, fair enough, but I don't think the £97 to look and diagnose the fault is, I suspect that's probably an hours labour.
I did look on line for the valve and pipe and there was one available with RR Autos, Renault parts specialist in Luton, about 9 miles away, but it was £2 more expensive that the main dealer, and as they weren't open today, I left the order with the Dealer, pity as I could have got the thing fitted over the weekend if I could have got it today.
Does anyone know what the function of the valve is,? as no one seems to know, looks to me that it's a damper, but why you would need it I don't know.
Brian
:banghead

grandadbobby
Advanced Driver
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:05 pm
Currently Drives:: megan dynamique estate 1.9dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby grandadbobby » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:00 pm

Hi Brian,
researched this when my grandson's went the same as yours.
It's to prevent any vibration from engine and clutch making your poor little foot feel anything but pure luxury driving experience. Yes I know.
The men in white coats probably realized that more women are driving now and imagine them all in high heel stilettos with paper thin soles and probably a mini-skirt.
Wonder if they sell the pipe without the valve, didn't need them before did we, would be a cheaper way of eliminating it, you could refit if no go.
Try them first thing Monday, might be open tomorrow, don't pay just for diagnosis, it would only be an opinion because mechanics of this don't show on diagnostic machines.
Bob.

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:58 pm

Hi Bob;
Thanks for taking so much trouble.
Funny enough I found a 2009 posting here today, when someone did exactly that to overcome a similar (same?)
problem as i have.
As I've already paid for the pipe and valve it would be a bit awkward to cancel now, and sourcing a pipe without the valve might take longer, and i really need the car back on the road as soon as possible, I live in a village with one bus an hour so it's really essential.
Once I've got the damn thing off, I'll take it apart and see just what is inside,
But I'd agree with you, another piece of sopthistication that isn't really necessary.
There's no way I'd pay that much money for someone else's opinion , that might or might not be right.
Brian

fay66
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm
Currently Drives:: 2006 Megane sports router 1.5 dci

Re: Clutch pedal on floor and can't engage gear.

Postby fay66 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:17 am

Well success at last, (Unless I've spoken too soon) :grin
Replaced the valve and pipe and bled the system, since then I've covered just under 300 miles with no further problems, so it looks like that was the final piece in the puzzle, or was it the problem all along, and the clutch master cylinder wasn't the problem? however at 157,000 miles it was worth changing anyway.
Looking at the valve and pipe I don't see why Renault can't just sell the valve on it's own as it's a separate item that is attached to the pipe the same as all other connections.
If God forbid I ever had the same problem, I'd be inclined to get an appropriate piece of pipe from another Renault model, some of these don't have the valve, and do away with the valve altogether, I still fail to see the necessity for it in the first place :-X
Thank you to everyone for your help.
Brian


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