Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

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ikhan
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Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:14 am

I'm getting a strange knock from the front of the car, but before going into this, perhaps a bit of background might be useful....

My car failed it's MOT on worn ball joints, so I bought complete new wishbones and asked the garage to replace them. With the old wishbones, I don't recall any significant knocks or bangs, but when these were off the car, I could put my index finger on the threaded part of the ball joint and move this without any resistance what so ever - I guess that means they were pretty much shot for sure (not sure how much play there should be there but this didn't seem right anyway).

With the new wishbones fitted, we went for a test drive and it all seemed ok (as it normally does!) but having had the car for a few days now, a few things don't feel right. They might be all related, but I'm hoping someone could point me in the right direction before I approach the garage later this afternoon.

1, The steering is slightly off-centre (to the right), or the car has a slight pull to the left (can't make my mind up!). I think its a bit of both! I saw him do the passenger side, and wasn't too far away whilst he did the driver's side and it didn't involve messing around with the tracking or anything.

2, There is a faint 'creaking' when moving very slowly, and a dull knocking sound (droplinks?) when driving on uneven surfaces.

3, Most importantly though, I get 2 significant knocks from the driver's side (I think), one of which I can easily reproduce. The first knock occurs when, with the car stationery and the steering turned to the right (say, at a triffic light), when I take up drive quickly I get a loudish knock. The 2nd knock occurs when I'm braking and happen to go over a bump during braking (but not always).

Sorry for the long post, but have the wishbones been fitted incorrectly / insecurely, or do I have a different problem altogether?
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

tomalamix
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby tomalamix » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:27 pm

there are bushings on the engine support strut that reproduce the symptoms you're describing, but i felt that not only when turning the car but also when i go straight.
if i use strongly the brake the car knocks, if i accelerate too fast the car knocks, whatever if its straight or not...

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:55 pm

Thanks for that. I have suspected an engine mount for quite sometime for other reasons (slight vibration), but I had these checked a few months ago and they all seemed ok. Worth another check I suppose.
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:57 pm

Well, they reckon its the steering arms (inner track rods?). There definitely is play in them and I was expecting the car to fail on these rather than the ball joints as it was an advisory last year. The thing that is annoying me though, is that he reckons the wishbones would need to come out to replace these, so I'll be paying twice for the same job. He said there was so much play in the ball joints that they couldn't notice any play in the steering arms at the time. I don't buy this but they have been really good to me the past. Still not convinced that the track rods would produce this noise, so maybe taking the wishbones out and starting again might be a good thing!
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

dcikev
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby dcikev » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 pm

There is no need to remove the wishbones to replace the inner track rod ends,you should be able to replace each side in around 30 mins and then have the tracking checked

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:47 am

That sounds good :D

I've decided to have both the inner and outer (ends) replaced at the same time. Its booked in for tomorrow.
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:28 pm

:banghead :banghead :banghead

Have had the inner track rods, and the track ends replaced, but the knock is still there!

Garage is a bit stumped too, so I don't want to replace parts for the sake of replacing parts. The inner tracks rods needed replacing anyway, but if the strut mounts are the next suspect, I want to be able to check them before hand to make sure that they need replacing.

Its a very strange knock - more pronounced on the passenger side, and also present on the driver's side. Driving normally and going over bumps etc does NOT produce any knocks or bangs, but sharp acceleration from stationery, or turning sharply from standstill does produce this single knock. It feels to me like something is possible loose, and 'gives way' under acceleration, but the $64m is what!?
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

AlexB
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby AlexB » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:45 pm

I thinks so. It is also clear that neither you nor the garage workers read the factory manual. Remember "he reckons the wishbones would need to come out to replace these"? The knock was not present before the repairs and appeared after. I guess it was cased by doing something wrongly. It is probably easier to rebuild the front suspension rather than keep guessing. The subframe needs to be checked as well.

I need to ask you, just in case... Are you aware of the recall which took place ages ago, where they fixed a single loud knock when on the full lock one way, and then the other way? It was fixed free of charge on all cars.

ikhan wrote:...The steering is slightly off-centre...the car has a slight pull to the left...have the wishbones been fitted incorrectly / insecurely...?
AlexB
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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:17 pm

Thanks for they reply.

In short, no the garage didn't read the manual. I did but assumed that this was onlt possible with the use of a specialist tool. It was done with the wishbones in place today though.

I have thought about this some more and the knock was actually there before the wishbones were replaced. I remember turning into my drive and feeling the same knock a few time before. I say knock, its more of a bang!

I wasn't aware of any recall - can you please give me any more details on this? (recall number, etc. and what they actaully repair).

I have thought that my next move should be to drop the struts and make sure everything as it should be but obviously this is all adding up a bit now so I should go down the recall way first I think.
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby MicKPM » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:30 pm

There are a few OTS's out for these relating to knocks, rattles and bangs... What can I say other than "French cars"

The steering alignment will be out due to the garage replacing the lower wishbones. Really they should've known this and made you aware that it needed doing because it could actually cause premature wear on your front tyres. The main concern, the knocking, is likely to be either a top mount bearing unit or a steering rack mounting... Either way I'd suggest taking it somewhere that knows how to check these areas as your curren garage doesn't sound overly clever to me at present.

Mick

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:58 am

Hi Mick,

Thanks for that. To be fair to the garage, they have said its beyond them and to get a second opinion. I've also had the tracking done and after the track rods and ends were replaced they set it up but we knew it was still way out. With the tracking now done at Kwik-Fit, the steering is still off centre even though they locked the steering in the straight ahead position (to date, they've never got it right the first time round on any car which is annoying!). The settings they used (I'm not sure how to translate these) were front wheels were bang on 7.5 to the rears, but the toe-in(?) was 0 on one front wheel, and 1 on the other, giving 0.5 total. The technical notes are a bit too technical for me so I don't know how this compares, but they claimed this is what there chart on the wall said (which I looked at and all I could see was that it showed the same values for ALL Megane II's).

Back to the banging, I do need to get this looked at elsewhere so I'll keep this thread updated with whatever I find out.

Thanks
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

AlexB
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby AlexB » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:51 pm

ikhan wrote:...I wasn't aware of any recall - can you please give me any more details on this?..


It is also in the same folder together with the other manuals. See the file "4572A.pdf".

However, if the knock happens not on full lock, then it might be something else.

You wrote that you could replicate the knock when turning into your driveway, possibly going over a low curb or something. This sounds more like either the very end of the spring broken (It can be still attached with its silly powder coating), or the strut bearing (on the top), or the nut in the top of the strut being loose. Regarding the latter, garages never renew it, as required by the manual, and do other silly things (lubricating the thread, not compressing the spring far enough prior to tightening the nut, etc.). Shake the car vigorously (or have it driven slowly over a brick) while keeping your hand on the top of the strut under the bonnet and see.

I just noticed that your car is lowered and equipped with low profile tyres, which prompts that the fault might be around the rebuilt parts or may be related to increased stress... There are so many things there to look at, that a thought comes that you should probably take the car to a better garage... It is not right that so-called "professionals" are unable to repair a very simple mechanical system to the as-new condition.
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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Thanks again .... appreciate all the advice.

One thing you said, about the strut bolts possibly being loose, has also crossed my mind. I think it does need to go my other trusted garage that I use to use for my Alfa and I'll ask him to rebuild the front struts again and replace anything that maybe at fault.
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)

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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby Meganedci06 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:59 am

i have this same issue after my wishbones done, i look into this by takeing the front wheels off and sitting on axel stands and got someing to turn the steers and nothing POPPED out but with the wheels on i could hear clicking when turung and nothing the spring "like" jumping but i thought it was the weight of the wheel. as i looked up at the suspention i could see a wet bit but again thought this was just rain water, but my bang is getting worse and i think my top mounts are away.

has anyone got a idea how these can be changed myself, as a garage will totally take the p!ss and will cost so much plus would i be best to do both as only noticed this on the drivers side?

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ikhan
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Re: Knock From The Front - New Wishbones!

Postby ikhan » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:11 am

Hi Meganedci - Interesting post - if this is anything to do with the 'clicking' then I noticed the same when my lowering springs were fitted, but on the driver side only. Turning the wheel whilst the car was on axel stands made the driver's side click-click-click, but NOT when the car was back on the ground.

To change the top mounts, the strut needs to be removed and you need spring compressors as well.
Renault Megane 1.5dCi (106)
Lowered 45mm (Spax)
RenaultSport R26 Front & Rear Bumpers, Spoilers, Door Bullets, & Exhaust
6000k HIDs (H7 & H11), LED Side, No Plate, & Interior Lights
18" Inovit Tarmac Alloys (matt black)


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