1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

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rik220
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Soon to be a 3dr megane

1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby rik220 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:30 pm

Hi,
I have a problem with my 03 megane. It starts no problem but cuts out after a few seconds of idling. Engine runs fine with the dephaser solenoid disconnected. I changed the dephaser pulley but it made no difference. Infact my new dephaser pulley occasionally rattles :banghead . It rattled today on first start up, however I started it last night after it sitting for over two weeks and it didnt rattle. I got another solenoid from a scrappy yesterday. When applying 12v to both of them they both operate, so it rules out the solenoid? Changed the cam position sensor and it made no difference.
I changed oil and filter for 5w40 fully synthetic at the same time as I changed the dephaser pulley. Im led to believe that the pulleys have free play when they are worn? However the one I removed had no free play. Im getting fed up throwing good money after bad.
I have a new TDC sensor sitting for it but I dont think it is the problem as it would display the same symptoms with or without the solenoid disconnected. With the solenoid plug connected to my second solenoid and the engine running (the other solenoid in the engine) the solenoid does nothing for 10 seconds/ish and then operates. This is roughly the same time frame in which the car would cut out with the plug connected to the solenoid in place in the engine. So from that I can gather the ecu is sending signal to advance the pulley? Which at idle the engine cannot run with?

Help really apprieciated folks.

Thanks
Rik

AlexB
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby AlexB » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:04 pm

I would guess the oil is not getting into it, at least while it is in the retarded position.

BTW, most 5w30/40 oils are modified mineral, and the word "synthetic" on the label is a scam started when Castrol won a legal case related to using certain terms in marketing. Use only MB229.5 and the OEM filters. Meanwhile, check if there are any blockages.

My engine is different, so I can't be more helpful. Good luck.
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

rik220
Passed Theory
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Currently Drives:: "99 1.2 Clio
Soon to be a 3dr megane

Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby rik220 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:29 pm

I checked the oil there and it isn't to the MB229.5 so that prob is one of my problems. My dephaser solenoid is getting a constant 12v and draining my battery. Am I right in thinking there is a software update to fix this??

AlexB
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby AlexB » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:04 am

rik220,

The oil and filter are not urgent, as they are new. Let's focus on the dephaser. The solenoid signal has pulse-width modulation. I would imagine, the current should be switched off when the engine is off. It is controlled directly by the ECU. It would be a very severe bug, if the current was always on - so, I doubt it can be cured with a software update.

These are just general thoughts, as my engine is different. Have a look in the factory manuals in the sticky thread above this one in case it says something on the subject...

Regarding the oil - I shop at Costco; Mobil 1 0w40 MB229.5 5L is £29 there.
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

OwenBoy
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby OwenBoy » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:04 am

After changing the dephaser myself and it lasting 2k miles before failiure I went to my local French independent who told me that after the dephaser is fityted it must be accompanied with a software update. Hope this helps

O

rik220
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Soon to be a 3dr megane

Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby rik220 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:29 am

Thanks for the replies.
The dephaser solenoid has only started this since i changed the pulley, I can even hear the solenoid buzzing when the engine is off if I put my ear to it. So I think the software needs looking at. I may try this first. Any ideas on cost regarding the software?

Thanks
Rik

AlexB
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby AlexB » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:11 pm

The car was usable initially, wasn't it (whether buzzing or not)? If you think that the problem is caused by the computer which entered some erroneous state, then just reset it by disconnecting the battery.

Now I am thinking that all these cars do a massive amount of self-calibration upon reset. If there was a fault, which is now repaired, the system may still be configured for the fault and needs resetting...
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

rik220
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Soon to be a 3dr megane

Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby rik220 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:48 pm

I bought the car with the fault. When I bought it the EML was on, but i erased this code. My code reader came up N/A so I dont know the code. Once I erased this it was ten times worse. The car used to run really really poor when cold, like wouldnt run without a steady throttle but ran pretty okish when warm, it cut out very occasionally but not nothing like it does since i erased the code. EML never appeared again. Symptoms now are regardless of operating temperature. Dephaser solenoid causing battery drain has only started since a few days after i changed the pulley. :? This may be coincidence, I dont know?
Would love to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks
Rik

rik220
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:40 pm
Currently Drives:: "99 1.2 Clio
Soon to be a 3dr megane

Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby rik220 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:43 pm

Update on this - I did a compression test just to see if the timing was out, I was pretty certain it wasnt but just to be sure i checked (I changed the dephaser pulley myself). Got as near as makes no difference 200psi in each cylinder so Im pretty sure I could rule bad timing out. However, now the car seems to be showing signs of behaving itself after multiple ECU resets because constantly disconnecting the battery to avoid it going flat. I can no longer hear the dephaser solenoid being energised. Car has idled probably for over an hour in total between last night and today. I dont drive the car so cannot test on the road.
Any reasons why its showing signs of behaving itself now after soo many ECU resets? What is the warm idle speed supposed to be on these? Currently mine idles at just below the nick below 1k, so just below the 750rpm mark? Does this sound normal?

Thanks
Rik

Scottep2
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby Scottep2 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:20 pm

Hi mine has exactly the same fault and runs fine with solenoid disconnected, is yours still okay and what do you believe was the cure of the fault?
Thanks

Chasmunday
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby Chasmunday » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:29 pm

Hello all I am new to the forum but as this old post says at my wits end with my grand scenic 1.6 vvt which is displaying the exact symptoms described in the post ,can anyone please help there must be a definitive Renault cure to this problem! Many thanks in advance ....?

ElCid
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby ElCid » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:49 am

by OwenBoy » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:04 am
After changing the dephaser myself and it lasting 2k miles before failiure I went to my local French independent who told me that after the dephaser is fityted it must be accompanied with a software update.


Are you sure that wasnt just an excuse because it went after very few miles? I have never heard it said before.

Chasmunday
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby Chasmunday » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:08 am

Hello all I posted earlier in the hope I would get a reply from some of the people who had the same problem as me, but many years ago ,but I assume they either scrapped their Renaults in disgust or were so overjoyed to have fixed them that they forget to post the cure! My 1.6 vvt wouldn't idle after I came to start the car after a long non stop 6 hour drive ,it would be OK when warmed up or if I disconnected the dephaser solenoid for a few seconds before starting and then reconnected after starting the car. I checked all sensors cleaned the throttle body and was going to flush the engine but found a review of Two Techs Renault specialists in Dartford so rang them and Terry one of the techs said I had covered most of the possibilities and would have a look for his diagnosis fee of £70 and low and behold he fixed it with a reprogram of the injection computer ,somehow the useless pile of s... had corrupted its software as it drove along . Now its all fine and has just completed a 3000 mile trip to Italy and France with no issues so anyone needing a genuine and thorough mechanic go to Two Techs in Dartford they know their stuff !

Omniquixotic
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Re: 1.6vvt stalling problem DEPHASER CHANGED - at wits end

Postby Omniquixotic » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:56 pm

A footnote to this whole sorry story. I had exactly the same problem with my wife's 05 Megane CC 1.6. It would start, then cut out after about 8 seconds, then required lots of revving to get it off the drive. After reaching operating temperature it would start OK, but the whole time, seemed a bit rough and lifeless. I did all the easy stuff like check / clean the crankshaft sensor (nothing) change the coolant sensor and have all the codes cleared etc. by a specialist (£45 well spent). None of this made any real difference. Dephaser pulley was not really noisy but not knowing what else to try, I also was about to have the pulley/cambelt / waterpump etc. Changed - a big expensive job. Before this, however, I pulled out the dephaser solenoid and tested it with a 12V power source. Yes, it clicked, but I wasn't quite sure if it worked every time or not, or how far the plunger was supposed to move. However, I cleaned the screens and refitted it. No improvement. Finally, just before having the whole pulley/cambelt / waterpump changed, I decided to just buy a new dephaser solenoid anyway, since I was changing all the rest. £40 for a quality pattern part with 2 yr guarantee and a two minute job to change it over. Result - stalling problem completely solved AND vast improvement to the running of the car, much smoother, more torque, more acceleration. Like the car was 5 years ago. I think that the problem with 'testing' the solenoid is that although it may move, you cannot see what is inside it, so if it is partly restricted, there is no way to know. My conclusions from all of this are 1) The dephaser pulley is a purely mechanical part, if it is worn or damaged, you will probably hear it rattling at some point. 2) The only way to proceed is to do all of the easy, cheap stuff first (sensors, oil flush / change etc.) 3) Do not assume that because the solenoid clicks, that it is functioning properly. It is better to invest £40 and 5 minutes with a 10mm socket before you finally blow £600+ on a pulley/cambelt / waterpump change.


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