HELP! Cam Belt Snapped! [FIXED]

[wyuen1]

Hi, happy xmas to you all. My engine might need replacing . I drive a 54 plate 1.4 16v megane rush, i was driving from leyton london to oxfordshire bicester village hoping to get some boxing day sale bargains but when i was on the M25 just passed St. Albans my car whistled and collapsed , as i was going 70mph i quickly moved to the hard shoulder and called AA.
They came within 45mins and tried starting the car and he immediately told me its the cam belt, the car was already making some noises for a week before the breakdown but i thought it was just due to the cold weather. I've been told by the AA guy that it might be a very expensive fix because the belt snapped on motorway speeds and might of damaged some pistons and valves and worst case scenario is a complete new engine fitted . the car was only recently serviced less than 2 months ago 31/10/10 from a local garage.
my car only covered 37,200 miles (17,000 when i bought it) and i owned the car for just over 2 years now, i'm just really confused because surely my cam belt should of been quite knackered and the guys in the garage should of saw this when they were servicing the car , when i finally got home and checked the service history it never had the cam belt changed and considering the age of the car i should of told them to change it regardless of the low mileage so its partly my fault aswell.
So can you please give me some much needed advise and anyone that can recommend me a good rep garage down east london area. a decent second hand engine on ebay is around £350-400 and they only covered 12-20k mileage so is this my best option just to replace the whole engine or get a garage to rebuild the engine?

thanks for the help

eric

[freddymercurystwin]

when i finally got home and checked the service history it never had the cam belt changed and considering the age of the car i should of told them to change it regardless of the low mileage so its partly my fault aswell.

No its entirely your fault, the garage are under no obligation whatsoever to remind you to check you got he belt changed.

[davelowe]

Are you referring to ASM (Thame, Oxfordshire)?

In my opinion £350 is VERY cheap for a complete engine - certainly less expensive than all the repair work that will be required (new valves, guides, etc). The only problem I can think of is the electronics - some things may need coding by CLIP. I don't know the petrol engines at all (on diesels the injectors have to be coded), so get more advice.

If you aren't doing the swapping yourself, I would again guess, that you would expect to pay a similar figure for the installation in the M25 area.

The belt on the original has a life of 4/5 years from memory. On the diesel, you can't actually inspect it without removing a lot of other stuff. It would never be something that a normal service would include. Don't blame the garage: these things happen.

[wyuen1]

Thanks for the replies, i think the best option is to buy a used engine and find a decent garage to fit it it. I don't think the electrics would be a big problem because when the car broke down no fault lights on the dash came up so hopefully it won't be a problem. I was looking at the asm engine on ebay and another engine item no: 350422530003 this done 6 more miles but its from a 07 plate i can can make him a offer and if i'm lucky might save some money

[davelowe]

Thanks for the replies, i think the best option is to buy a used engine and find a decent garage to fit it it. I don't think the electrics would be a big problem because when the car broke down no fault lights on the dash came up so hopefully it won't be a problem. I was looking at the asm engine on ebay and another engine item no: 350422530003 this done 6 more miles but its from a 07 plate i can can make him a offer and if i'm lucky might save some money

Do your homework on the electronics.

You might get some money back if you swap the engine - they may re-condition the old unit and factor this in as a discount.

[AlexB]

It is a strange comment...
The customer of a garage does not need to know the technical details apart from the service intervals. It is the business of a garage to check the factory service schedule and to list the recommended jobs. I think the OP can get full compensation for the repairs if the invoice from the garage does not include the timing belt job.

The other story is good practice. I agree, many owners are careless, like in this case. This, however, is not an excuse for a commercial entity for not doing its job properly.

when i finally got home and checked the service history it never had the cam belt changed and considering the age of the car i should of told them to change it regardless of the low mileage so its partly my fault aswell.

No its entirely your fault, the garage are under no obligation whatsoever to remind you to check you got he belt changed.

[leighton]

speak to citizens for advice you never now ,does not sound right to me , all garages ive used always tell you when the cambelt is due , thats a way to get you to change with them if it is nearly due

[freddymercurystwin]

I think the OP can get full compensation for the repairs

Please explain how a garage is legally obliged to remind you to do periodic checks and/or ask the owner if they carried out items requiring servicing at pre-determined times from the past? Should they have also asked if the brake fluid had been changed, how about the anti-freeze, checked the air-conditioning?

[AlexB]

If the job order/invoice/receipt clearly states "service" rather than just a list of arbitrary jobs, then it is the duty of the garage to do the service right. By taking the payment for the service they legally confirm completion of the contract. Otherwise, they will be causing damage by not completing their contract. It is not about checking various things, as you mentioned. The belt is not checked in services, by the way. It is replaced by mileage or time. In the last service the garage was supposed to replace the belts because of their age, as stated in the service schedule, which it neglected to do. The Small Court will recognise this as a direct cause of the damage.

To your question. No, the garage is not legally obliged to educate its customers, which is irrelevant in this case. In this case, a part which was supposed to be replaced under the contract "service" was not actually replaced. Then, very soon it failed. I see a direct link between these two events.

I think the OP can get full compensation for the repairs

Please explain how a garage is legally obliged to remind you to do periodic checks and/or ask the owner if they carried out items requiring servicing at pre-determined times from the past? Should they have also asked if the brake fluid had been changed, how about the anti-freeze, checked the air-conditioning?

[leighton]

check legal rights

[freddymercurystwin]

If the job order/invoice/receipt clearly states "service" rather than just a list of arbitrary jobs, then it is the duty of the garage to do the service right.

Possibly but the OP has not been forthcoming in what he requested the garage to carry out. If you go into a garage and ask for a 'service' without specifying exactly what you want then you will have no comeback. A service is an arbitrary term meaning anything from a simple oil change to a full on service/maintenance check replacing any possible serviceable items. Has the service book been stamped in every box?

Why would a garage be expected to change a serviceable item that should have already been changed last year? Are you saying they should have asked the OP if this had been carried out last year? If so why is a garage legally bound to ask this?

Yet again, the regulars insist on blaming anyone but the OP!

[AlexB]

Service can not be carried out without either the service book or a specific request from the client to do only some particular jobs. A missing stamp in the service book must prompt the servicing garage to negotiate a specific list of jobs with the client and make it evident in the paperwork. Otherwise, the client can sue them later.

Anyway, the OP stopped replying. It may happen that similar to many careless people he did not request the appropriate paperwork in the due time. Without a receipt and an invoice with the word "service" on it alongside with the number plate, date and mileage the case will be dismissed in 5 seconds.

[freddymercurystwin]

Service can not be carried out without either the service book or a specific request from the client to do only some particular jobs.

Cobblers, many garages offer to do set price services and many clients are none the wiser as to what is and is not included.

A missing stamp in the service book must prompt the servicing garage to negotiate a specific list of jobs with the client and make it evident in the paperwork. Otherwise, the client can sue them later.

Yet again, under what grounds is a garage lawfully obliged to do this? I have not once suggested that it is good or bad practice (although it is obviously not good) the problem is with saying they are lawfully obliged to do this. Please tell me where it says that if there is a missing service stamp then that should legally bind a mechanic into asking about previous service history? I will have a long wait!

[wyuen1]

I asked for a "full service" and to change worn parts. The gatage had my service book and none of the services had the belt changed. The only major part he changed were the rear brake pads.
I posted my situation for repairing advise not for a debate if its my fault or the garages. I already stated i should of got it changed regardless of the service. I'm only 21 so this will be a lesson learnt.
So can anyone tell me how i can find my engine code or all megane 1.4 engines will fit without problem.

Thanks much apprieciated

[AlexB]

Eric (wyuen1),

In this situation you are a victim. Your "fault" is that you let someone to victimise you. Before biting the bullet, I suggest you to explore the way of recovering your losses. Do you have an invoice and a payment receipt from the garage who serviced your car? Does the invoice say "full service"? Do not repair the car now. By law, you have to give the garage in question a chance to resolve the matter amicably, i.e. to repair your car or pay the compensation. The whole procedure is simpler than you think.

As you asked, your engine is K4J, probably 730 or 732. You might want to leave all the old electronics in place and to swap just the mechanical lump. All K4J have the same crankcase and are attached to the same gearbox (JH3). The factory repair manuals can be found in the sticky thread in this forum above the other threads.