dodgy sale

[steven-white]

bought this car 2 weeks ago, drove it 1st time for 15 minutes, 2nd time for 20 minutes then turned left out of a corner and clunk! screeching and wheels wudnt turn. called breakdown, took it to the garage opposite my work and they have told me the gearbox mount snapped, due to the way the car was driven before i owned it, so the stress made it go, just happened to be the 3rd time i drove it! because this snapped, the gearbox lowered and pulled down on the manifold causing the front part of the exhaust to lower aswell and break the middle part of the exhaust under the car. great! contacted the guy i bought it from, a private seller, and he is denying knowledge and responsibility for the problem.

to add to this, the mechanic at the same garage and another mechanic mate of his have found out that the engine is new, the gearbox mount that snapped was a 2nd hand part and the front of the car was involved in an accident as the front end is from another car and has been resprayed to match the colour of the rest of the car.

damn!

gearbox is being sent away 2morow for 2-3 days to have aluminium cover the big crack on it where as it wasnt supported by the mount. something connected to it was pulled out, like a bolt, and herefore cracked it. having the bar obviously replaced and the exhaust sorted. luckily where the exhaust boke halfway under the car, it was where one piece joined to another, so it just has to be welded or soldered back together. hopefully have it back by thurs/friday.

my gripe is the fact the seller wont accept, not even 1%, that the problem that has been confirmed by 2 mechanics, was caused by it being driven the way it was over a period of time before i bought it. he is in denial and i cant seem to get through to him. this could cost me up to 500 quid to put right and i have asked him for about 400 quid. im not asking for my money back. he isnt budging even though i said i will contact Trading Standards if he doesnt co-operate.

any ideas to get some money off him?

[pw981]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate issue... from the way you describe I'm assuming that it was a private seller you bought the car off?

If this is the case, I'm afraid trading standards will not be of much help, as generally in a private sale, the onus is on the buyer to probe for information/find out/mechanically check the car out yourself...

When you bought the car, did you ask the seller if it had been in any accidents? If you did and he said it had not, but it obviously has... again you haven't really got a leg to stand on... as there isn't much buyer protection when buying privately. Did you HPI check the car before purchase?

If you did buy the car from a trader though, then you have every right to go to trading standards, as there was clearly a fault with the car that you have purchased.

Hopefully others will be able to elaborate.

[Vickitrice]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, bit of a daft question, but was the sale arranged through eBay or any similar site? If you did then you might have a bit of help under the distance trading act, anything sold through those sites are covered.

Contact TS and ask them if you have any chance in a small claims court. I had this with a car I bought off eBay from a private seller. The gear box went about 500 miles after I bought it, an the guy had basically discharged the air from te clutch, to stop the awful noise for the test drive, which lasted a few miles but then because the gearbox was cracked it didn't last long. He denied all knowledge of anything bein wrong with it, but I managed to do him for it, and he had to either give me a full refund, or pay for the repair!

Sorry if this is no help to you at all, but thought I'd try!

[steven-white]

hi guys, thanks for replying to me and welcoming me to the site..... the car was on ebay and i asked the seller a question, then watched the listing. the car didnt sell and i made him an offer which he said no to at first then accepted after a few days. i did check the car over and did ask him if it had been involved in any accidents. he said no and seemed genuine. personally,i dont trust ne1 and made sure i looked all over the car and that all the paperwork was present and correct, etc.

i have emailed him through ebay and asked him for his email address so i can take photos of the broken parts and email them to him. he hasnt emailed me yet. didnt think he would lol

i will contact ts just in case there is hope of taking him to court. gonna cost me near 500 quid to get it sorted and may get the carback thurs or next tuesday.

ill see what happens.

thanks again for your replies.

steve

[davelowe]

How did you pay? Cash/cheque/bankers draught/money transfer/Paypal etc?

[steven-white]

cash

[davelowe]

Bummer. Get some legal help from citizens advice. As mentioned, you could probably make a claim wrt sales description act. Small claims court is simple and cheap.

I need to get back up to speed with the legalities of purchasing...

[steven-white]

thanks for the advice dave. ill look into it. gonna contact them both on monday by email and if not by phone. seller has finally emailed me asking to see photos of what broke. ill let him sweat until tuesday.

[davelowe]

I have done a little reading on the matter (it's been a while since I went to a small claims court).

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... /DG_182935

If it becomes necessary (assuming you have tried negotiation etc), the procedure is simple (or was a few years ago). You go to the nearest county court office. Pick up some forms, fill them in, pay a small fee (this depends on the purchase amount) and the court serves the papers. You will next get a date for the hearing. Normally before this occurs the seller will contact you to settle out of court - including refunding the court fee. They don't want a CCJ on their credit reference. If they don't settle, you will have to sit in an informal room (like an office) and present your case in front of a judge (typically a solicitor or QC - no wigs!). You have a say, and so does the other party. Then a decision is reached. You may have legal representation if you wish - but this is not usual in the kind of case (not worth it).

It is important to get written reports from the mechanics that have already inspected your car and inform the seller in advance - this usually persuades them to cough up. Be aware though, that if they have no assets, there is little point proceeding unless you want to go down the no win no fee private prosecution route. This would be a dead cert win if the CCJ went in your favour - it depends on how you want to play it and the circumstances.

[freddymercurystwin]

found out that the engine is new

So did the different engine number not come up when you HPI checked it then?

You will only be able to claim against a private seller for one of the following reasons:

* The vehicle doesn't match the description they gave you
* The seller broke a specific contract term
* The seller was actually a dealer posing as a private seller
* The seller did not have good title to the vehicle
* The vehicle is not roadworthy

[davelowe]

* The seller broke a specific contract term

Surely the fact that you verbally agreed that the vehicle was roadworthy and/or in good condition (but it wasn't) constitutes breach of contract? Contracts are just defined as what both parties agree to be the case - they don't have to be in writing.

[freddymercurystwin]

* The seller broke a specific contract term

Surely the fact that you verbally agreed that the vehicle was roadworthy and/or in good condition (but it wasn't) constitutes breach of contract? Contracts are just defined as what both parties agree to be the case - they don't have to be in writing.

How do you or the OP know it wasn't just a coincidence? As far as we know the seller was completely genuine, the OP has not given us half the info required in order to pass judgement on the seller.

Did the different engine number not come up when you HPI checked it then or was such a check not carried out? (the OP has been asked this by two different posters now)
What is the mileage?
What is the model and age?
How much did the OP pay?
What is the condidtion of the car?
How many owners?
How long did he own it?
What was the service history?
How well did the OP check the car? Take it for a quick test drive or spend a few hours checking every aspect of the car jacking up each wheel, laying underneath etc etc?
How does the OP know the previous seller repaired it or did the owner before him have it crash repaired?
Are the OP's mechanics prepared to put in writing their testimonials? In any case only a truly impartial engineer agreed by both parties will be required for any court claim.
Any judge will expect a buyer to have taken all necessary steps to try to ensure a safe purchase. Anyone who has not taken all necessary steps must bear some responsibility.

due to the way the car was driven before i owned it

Please elaborate on this? Are they saying it was driven hard? What is wrong, in the eyes of a judge, with the previous owner thrashing it?

[steven-white]

i didnt do a hp check. my fault. the mechanics told me it had been involved in an accident purely by chance as they had it up on a ramp in their premises to remove the damaged gearbox to be sent away for repair. they called me and told me the engine was not the original, i didnt check the engine number, only the v.i.n.

Where the car had been repaired, it was only done to a safe standard, if you see what i mean; not a bang-up top job asit should be. the gearbox mount (the part that snapped and caused the damage to the gearbox) was a 2nd hand part, not the original. plus this part had been weakend over time due to the way the car had been driven over a period of time. the type of driving would have been in the 'boy racing' nature; sharp turning and harsh breaking and speeing away from lights quickly or from a standing position.

the garage is closed until tuesday and i will be photographing the part that broke, plus asking the mechanics if they would give me a statement in writing. i do not know them personally, they are just a garage across from my work.

the seller told me the vehicle was roadworthy and in good condition. i did a visual check and started the engine and listened to the engine before agreeing to pay for it. i couldnt test-drive it as it was parked at his friend's garage, next door to his address, or the address on the v5 document. there were cars blocking it in. i didnt suspect anything could be wrong as the mileage was only 32,000. i dont trust any1, never have, but i found the car to be fine and took the seller's word.

[freddymercurystwin]

[davelowe]

Hmm. Not looking good. I see now that it might be difficult to establish the burden of proof.

It looks, from what you have said, that you have been sold a lemon. I know it's easy in hindsight, but not checking the engine number, car history and especially a test drive... Without the engine bay VIN check, you could have been sold a stolen car. V5s can be made to order to suit the windscreen VIN and put on false plates. In the worst case you could be pulled over and find that your tax, MOT and insurance are invalid - the car would then be seized and you would lose all of your cash and the car.

I suggest you verify the door pillar plates, the engine stamp, the registration plate and the VIN with the DVLA. They should have matching records.