Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

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OwenBoy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby OwenBoy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:24 am

Firstly I have searched the forum and found some excellent research on the old VVT dephaser pulley.

I am looking to do a cambelt change on my Mrs 2004 1.6 40k megane, I have been advised to change water pump and the dephaser pulley at the same time.
I will be buying the locking kit as I realise this engine is the keyless crank variety.

I have a few questions before I take it all apart...
~Is there a guide anywhere? I have a cheap ebay cd which is useless! I need Torque settings etc
~Is it best to use the Renault parts? I now know to look for 3rd generation VVT and the core plugs :grin
~If I lock the camshaft with the kit can I simply unbolt and rebolt the VVT pulley? :conf

Any tips, tricks or advice appreciated

Many Thanks in advance

O

MicKPM
Passed Theory
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Currently Drives:: Megane II dCi, LAguna II GT Turbo (Petrol), Renault 19 16v (Ex-Tim Harvey RDR shell)
Location: Nottingham
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Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby MicKPM » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:12 am

OwenBoy wrote:I have a few questions before I take it all apart...
~Is there a guide anywhere? I have a cheap ebay cd which is useless! I need Torque settings etc


Not legally no - Renault tech docs are intelectual property of Renault SAS and anyone found to be distributiing them in any form is in breach of copyright law. I know, sounds really scarey doesn't it but decent, genuine, up-to-date tech docs are rare online. I can get them (Torque settings that is) for you from work though if you need them although generally common sense prevails. If you need a rough process guide though I can write one for you as I've done this service a few times now.

OwenBoy wrote:~Is it best to use the Renault parts? I now know to look for 3rd generation VVT and the core plugs :grin


You can get away with using non-genuine timing belt kits without risking quality but with the depahsers they are Renault only parts i'm afraid (I don't think i'd trust a non-gen unit TBH). Continental offer very good timing belt kits for around £90 retail which have everything you need in them though they can be had cheaper in the trade or on eBay. Same with water pumps... genuine are the prefered weapons of choice (I've just bought 15 units in a bulk bankruptcy sale for £10 each) but aftermarket FAI or QH units are very good quality and can be had for less than Renault units which are only reboxed Federal Mogul parts anyhow.

OwenBoy wrote:~If I lock the camshaft with the kit can I simply unbolt and rebolt the VVT pulley? :conf


Nearly but not quite - The "Lock set" you'll get will most likely only consist of a "cam setting bar" and a "crank setting pin". The setting bar will only hold the cams in the preset TDC position and it should NEVER EVER be used to un-lock the cam pulley bolts as you will only bend the bar and/or snap the cam locating groove leaving you shafted! To unlock the pulleys (Which you will have to do IF you're doing the job correctly) you need to imobilise the camshaft pulleys by using another tool that bolts to the block between the two pulleys but be sure to get the VVC variant and not the earlier version for non-dephaser setups (This tool can be purchased on its own for around £40-55 from Sealey, Laser, Snap-On, AST, Etc). You will also need a 14mm male Hex to undo the dephaser cap which gives you access to the main securing bolt. Refitting the dephaser is simple; most units now come pre-locked but you will need to check this before belting it up... put it on the cam, pre-tighten and rotate it fully left or right until you hear it "Click". If you can't turn it don't worry or force it, its been pre-locked! Then all that's left is to note the position of the outer mark on the new unit which need to be at 12 O'Clock.

Replacing the dephaser isn't required by general process though there are a few tech notes floating about on the subject (NT5259 being the main one) but it is good practise to do it if you can afford it as they're common problems and sods law say's yours will start to rattle or give starting problems after you've done the belt change. If you don't change it to save yourself £140+ be sure to check it for signs of movement when the setting bar is in place. Any serious movement = worn unit and needs replacing. The odd fraction of a degree is okay but the general rule is movement = change it.

Other tips - Deffo replace the water pump as worn units account for most failures commonly refered to as "Timing Belt Failure" on the K4M's as the bearing race either collapses or the bearing race just siezes and the driving sprocket either strips the timing belt of all teeth or the sprocket simply snaps off... either way you will bend valves! You should also look at replacing the aux belt and bearing unit which is available in a service kit from your local Renault parts dept. but it will add another £60+ to your parts bill (You can get away without replacing the aux belt run IF you're sure the parts are sound though).

When you've done it turn the engine over by hand 4 or 8 times (That's 4 or 8 turns of the crank BTW not hte cams... not wanting to teach your Gran to suck eggs but some people don't know this) and removing the plugs helps make this easier. Ensure the basic lock set can be reinserted after 4 or 8 turns and retime if not. If so, replace all covers and belts then re-start the engine.

Mick

AlexB
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Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby AlexB » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:01 am

You need the file MR364MEGANE1.pdf

See the sticky thread above the other threads in this forum.

The same docs in French are pointed at in my message in Links.

Some people (not me) buy a CD set Dialogys on ebay for a couple of quid or download the CD images from dodgy sites. It is the same system as the dealers use for the parts, labour times and repair/diagnosis. These are illegal copies, indeed, and some of them have the license checking mechanism broken. The PDF files containing the manuals are a part of Dialogys.

One may say it is immoral to read these documents. On the other hand, the product "car" is fundamentally not fit for the purpose without the service and repair manual. The owners are not obliged by law to use "authorised dealers" for servicing/repair. Therefore, as the cars are sold in the UK, then implicitly the seller and the manufacturer, whose authorisation the seller has, confirm that they are suitable for the purpose, which means not preventing access to what makes the product suitable for the purpose, i.e. information. For example, when I order parts and the dealer shows me the screen of Dialogys, because they are not literate enough to use it, they are not breaking the law. Anyway, I am not advertising piracy, but I would also don't mind the idea of legal owners accessing the manuals during the time of ownership. Storing the content in the computers and its distribution is a different matter. The content is often stored in certain far away countries and then mirrored by automatic services. I choose to not store it...
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

OwenBoy
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby OwenBoy » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:19 pm

Thankyou both thats some fantastic information.

Mick, I am stuggling to find the pulley locking tool, I have the sealey locking set here https://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.a ... results=16
any tips where to purchase the pulley lock it mentions it for the 1.8 and 2.0 units?

Many Thanks

O

OwenBoy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby OwenBoy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:46 pm

Anyone know what tool to lock the camshafts to remove the VVT pulley? Cant find anything

O

OwenBoy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby OwenBoy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:38 pm

Anyone have a cam locking tool? :-)

AlexB
Driving Legend
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Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby AlexB » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:03 pm

It seems you will need an additional tool for positioning the dephaser. You lock the cams on the far end, then attach the pulley fixation plate, then tighten the bolt. It is in the manual, I never tried doing it, as my car is different. I would imagine one can do the job without it, but then the Renault symbol will not appear on the top (who cares!) and there will be a +-0.5 tooth error in timing (not much). Make sure that the mating surface of the dephaser is dry and use a new bolt.
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

OwenBoy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby OwenBoy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:37 pm

Hello there,

Reviving this thread as I will have chance to tackle this beast in the next few weeks.

Is this the tool I need to be able to lock the camshaft in order to replace the dephaser pulley?

https://www.pvrdirect.co.uk/productinfo. ... ef=VSE5734

Cheers

O

MicKPM
Passed Theory
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:19 am
Currently Drives:: Megane II dCi, LAguna II GT Turbo (Petrol), Renault 19 16v (Ex-Tim Harvey RDR shell)
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby MicKPM » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:14 am

Sorry, just resurecting this thread (again) for anyone else that may be searching and looking for clarification on the sutability of this tool. I've been away for a long time and only just come back to the site.

The tool in your link above (OwenBoy) is correct however a word of warning - You will notice that two of the three lobes that actually insert in to the camshaft pulleys are circular bosses and the third is a flat plate that rotates. Be sure the rotate the flat plate type into the axis of pulley rotation or else it will most likely bend as the tool isn't designed for "profesional" everyday use (This is what happened when one of my lads tried to "cheap out" after no-one would lend him a genuine Renault locking plate)... For the money though it will do you well!

Another word to the wise, mind you don't bend the crank position "setting" pin when angle torquing the NEW crank pulley bolt. They're not actually a locking pin and are only designed to hold the crank web in TDC position. Attempting to torque the new bolt with it as a stop can cause the setting pin to bend slightly which in turn allows the crank to "walk" or "creep" forward (Not to any major detremental effect but its still not doing the job right as the piston deck height starts to go down).

Mick

pwjsmith
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Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby pwjsmith » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:32 pm

Hi Mick,

Having read your excellent advice for this post and your comments on another one, I believe you work in the "trade". Where are you based and what is the approx charge for a cambelt and water pump change? I have a 2008 1.6 VVT which has done 11k miles and is due to have this work done next May. Given the mileage would I need to have the dephaser pulley and the auxillary belt changed?

Thanks

MicKPM
Passed Theory
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:19 am
Currently Drives:: Megane II dCi, LAguna II GT Turbo (Petrol), Renault 19 16v (Ex-Tim Harvey RDR shell)
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby MicKPM » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:15 am

That would be correct but I don't want to get in to trouble by advertising... So it admin deems it allowed I'll post details and offer a discount to all club members (as I do for CS.net, MS.net and 197.net).

Drop me a PM with your reg and I'll do you a price

AlexB
Driving Legend
Posts: 4314
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:17 pm
Currently Drives:: Renaultsport R.S.250 Cup

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby AlexB » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:50 pm

We have "Members discounts / offers" section specifically for this purpose...

MicKPM wrote:That would be correct but I don't want to get in to trouble by advertising... So it admin deems it allowed I'll post details and offer a discount to all club members (as I do for CS.net, MS.net and 197.net).

Drop me a PM with your reg and I'll do you a price
AlexB
(no, a different AlexB)

MicKPM
Passed Theory
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:19 am
Currently Drives:: Megane II dCi, LAguna II GT Turbo (Petrol), Renault 19 16v (Ex-Tim Harvey RDR shell)
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: Cambelt and Dephaser Replacement Guide

Postby MicKPM » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:05 pm

Alex, thanks for the heads up.

Do I have to send the details and prices to an admin/mod for them to post or do I just do it myself?

Mick


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