REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

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triumph2.5man
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REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby triumph2.5man » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:50 pm

Hi Megane folks! I have just replaced our 1.5dci cambelt. Are you intending to do yours? It's a fiddly job but not the most difficult I have done by a long chalk! If you need advice, get in touch.
When should the belt be changed? Depends on who you talk to! Renault recommend after 5 years max. Senor Manuel Haynes says "up to 72k". Peugeot recommend change at 80k for the PUG 206 16v with no time limit. The belts themselves are invariably made by Gates anyway. "Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer choice...."
Our 1.5dci is 7 years old so from that point of view, replacement was 2 years overdue. Mileage 70k so quite near the limit recommended by Haynes.
The point is that when I removed the belt I was amazed to find it in absolutely pristine condition - as good as the new one I fitted!
As a retired (and tired!) mechanic I no longer work under pressure and allowed a day. Next one will take under 4 hours!
The Gates belt cost £15 posted from a motorfactor on ebay and timing pins also from ebay around £11 posted. Could have managed without the latter but at the very least I would say the TDC crank pin is essential.
I removed the tensioner and examined the bearing very, very carefully. No trace of any play or wear in the bearings or the pulley itself and still packed with lubricant so I put it back. Ditto for the auxiliary belt automatic tensioner. A sign of a dry bearing is a pronounced sqeak, usually from cold.
If you attempt the job, the best of british, sorry french, mes amis!
The only problem I had was getting the Megane's ass in my garage - the damned thing is so wide. About an inch clearance either side with the door mirrors folded back!
Mike the ancient Triumphman!

davelowe
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Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby davelowe » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Very interesting.

I've been wondering whether or not to try the job on my 1.9dci. The only thing holding me back is that the manual recommends that the belt tension be checked using Renault equipment that measures the frequency of belt vibration. Apparently it is critical (I like to doubt these kind of claims, but I wouldn't like to snap the belt!).

What is your opinion?
Silver 08 plate 5dr 1.5dci Dynamique 106 Tech Run (re-mapped)

Red 03 plate 5dr 1.9 Dynamique dci120

Best advice for Megane owners: sell it before it bankrupts you!

triumph2.5man
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Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:52 pm
Currently Drives:: Mondeo TDCI mk3 2002
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Megane II dynamique 1.5dci 722 engine 2003
Ford Galaxy 115bhp 2002 (family car)
Megane 3 1.5dci 2009 832 engine (family car)

Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby triumph2.5man » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:02 pm

Hello there, thanks for the response. I have no experience of the 1.9 but having read that chapter in the Haynes manual, it is a bit of a problem. The1.9 does not need an accurate TDC timing pin as the 1.5 does, as an 8mm bolt or drill will suffice. On the other hand a special Renault tool is needed to set the tension. So from these points of view the two engines differ. (The belt tension of the 1.5 is set by a spring and by lining up a pointer with a notch - seemples!)
The 1.9 tension is set manually by turning a bolt against the tensioner pulley and pushing it along against the belt. In many ways this is how most belts were set up when timing belts replaced timing chains yonks ago. I'm thinking here of early VW Polos, Golfs, Vauxhalls etc where the water pump was mounted eccentrically and rotated to tension the belt. The rule then was if you could twist the belt 90 deg on the longest run, the tension was OK. If the tension was too tight a distinct noise could be heard from the engine/water pump when running.
The Haynes manual mentions this method of tensioning but says between 45 deg and 90 deg. It recommends this as a temporary measure while you run the vehicle to your local Renault garage for checking. The covers could be left off for this but the front of the engine is not easily accessible (not much room) and would the bods at the garage be prepared to do this?
It might be worth enquiring.
Personally I would attempt the job using the 90 deg method. I worked with a fitter who only ever used this method on any engine (even with sprung tensioner timing marks) and still does so, and has never, ever had a problem.
What could happen? If the tension is too loose, the belt could jump. If too tight it could break. I must say that for either of these to happen it would need to be very loose or very tight!
It is a risk, one you would have to weigh up. How many miles has the engine done? Have you actually looked at the belt? With a minimal amount of dismantling of the top mounting, it is possible to see the belt around the camshaft sprocket and get an idea of the condition. I once examined a belt on a PUG 205 diesel and found it to be frayed to hell - but still in daily use!!!
I don't know if this has been any help at all.
Cheers, Mike the old triumph man!

davelowe
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Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby davelowe » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:18 pm

Mike, your advice is very well received. I have the Haynes manual and have read through the procedure to the point where I can recite it.

I have examined the belt and to my eye it looks brand new (although I know it to be the original).

There is no specific reason for replacement other than age (7 years), and I do a lot of short, stop start driving. There is a slight whining noise when the engine is cold started which is in the region of the belt, this may be the coolant pump bearings, the high pressure fuel pump, or my imagination.

Obviously I will replace the coolant pump if I do change the belt and tensioner. Total cost for the parts is around £80 for the timing belt kit (Gates), £30 for the pump, and whatever the fan belt is. I've been quoted £500 or so from the dealership and some independant garages for the job (mostly labour).

I'm in two minds as to whether or not to do the job myself. On one hand I would save a lot of money, but on the other I could spectacularly balls it up with the tension problem. I suppose I could see what the dealer would charge for the tension fine-tuning.

I want my old DOHC Almera with its chain back!

Further comments most welcome.

Cheers,
Dave
Silver 08 plate 5dr 1.5dci Dynamique 106 Tech Run (re-mapped)

Red 03 plate 5dr 1.9 Dynamique dci120

Best advice for Megane owners: sell it before it bankrupts you!

triumph2.5man
Advanced Driver
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:52 pm
Currently Drives:: Mondeo TDCI mk3 2002
Pug 307HDI90 1.6 (family car)
Megane II dynamique 1.5dci 722 engine 2003
Ford Galaxy 115bhp 2002 (family car)
Megane 3 1.5dci 2009 832 engine (family car)

Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby triumph2.5man » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:47 pm

Dave, I am intrigued by this tensioning business. I've had a look at my Megane service manual (Renault) and the tensioning tool is a small, fiendish device MOT1273, part mechanical, part electronic. Imagine a tool with 3 pegs, the central one moveable. The belt fits over the outer two and under the central, moveable one. As the belt is tightened it attempts to straighten and this is detected by the moveable bit. Deflection or tension is recorded on an LED display and adjusted accordingly. This does not help you as I you won't be buying one!
Thinking about what I wrote last night, the answer probably lies in the tension of the existing belt. Before you remove it, spend some time trying to ascertain the tension by twisting or turning. You could then transfer this to the new belt.
I have just noticed that another member has changed his 1.9 belt and I have posted an enquiry to him asking how he set the tension. Could be interesting!
Cheers, Mike

davelowe
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Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 3:40 pm

Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby davelowe » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:23 pm

Mike,

Good thinking about the existing tension. I may, subject to access, simply place a strain gauge on the existing belt and measure it (sounds like what the MOT tool does). Then adjust the new one to suit subject to the 45/90 degree twist test on the longest length.

I'll have another think.

Cheers
Silver 08 plate 5dr 1.5dci Dynamique 106 Tech Run (re-mapped)

Red 03 plate 5dr 1.9 Dynamique dci120

Best advice for Megane owners: sell it before it bankrupts you!

triumph2.5man
Advanced Driver
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:52 pm
Currently Drives:: Mondeo TDCI mk3 2002
Pug 307HDI90 1.6 (family car)
Megane II dynamique 1.5dci 722 engine 2003
Ford Galaxy 115bhp 2002 (family car)
Megane 3 1.5dci 2009 832 engine (family car)

Re: REPLACING 1.5DCI TIMING BELT??

Postby triumph2.5man » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:28 pm

Dave did you see Pastymuncher's reply to my query about belt tension?
I would go for it!
(Look at his video clip. Is he the STIG....?)
Regards, Mike


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