Weird Starting Issue

[ikhan]

Hopefully, this will be one of those 'one-off' things, but I thought I'd gather some thoughts on here anyway.

Started my car early this afternoon (outside temperature 13c) after it was last used yesterday evening, and the car fired up as normal - so far so good. However, in the time it took me to grab my seatbelt and buckle in, the car cut out. I tried starting it again, and a few times I got nothing. Then, I took the card out and tried to lock / unlock the car (after opening and shutting the door), but the buttons on the remote didn't seem to work. I put the card back in and tried again, now the car was turning over as normal, but it wouldn't 'catch'. I took the card out and the car tried to start itself again (with the card out - my car is not handsfree). Anyways, I got out of the car and tried locking / unlocking the car again. This time the car locked and unlocked on the remote. Tried starting the car again, and after a couple of attempts, it fired up, sounding a bit rattly (almost like a lack of oil pressure) but this only lasted a fraction of a second if that.

I have no warning lights or anything at anytime through this. The car lacked power during the subsequent drive - it wasn't in limp mode, but as soon as I changed up a gear, the momentum was gone. I'd like to think that the seemingly lack of power was down the the weight I was carrying (washing machine drum and bits to the local recycling centre) but I genuinely don't think it was that - the car has always had ample power even with 3 or 4 passengers, and the washing machine parts at best were equivalent to no more than the weight of an average person.

Anyways, all was well on the return journey, so I'm a bit baffled by this.

Any ideas if this was just a gremlin of sorts or will there likely be an underlying problem?

TIA

[ikhan]

Well it wasn't a one-off because it just happened again

[meganejan2014]

do you have a second keycard ? I so try it se if its the same ,I am no expert but could be your card on its way out.

[ikhan]

Thanks for that - I was thinking of trying that when it happened yesterday again (worse than ever before), but didn't get the chance.

Will try it, but I don't think it's the card - seems more like an electrical problem. There's a faint buzzing noise from the engine compartment during which the buttons on the remote don't work. When the car is forced shut with the start button, the buzzing disappears and then the buttons operate. This doesn't always result in the car starting afterwards though.... It might take a few attempts. Turns over fine, just doesn't jump into life. Once started, it is definitely down on power until the engine is switched off and back on again, however, no warning lights or anything.....

EDIT: What I forgot to mention is that yesterday, I noticed a bit of air in the diesel line. I pumped the primer (was a bit soft) but is still looked like there were tiny bubbles, almost like 'foamy' air bubbles - I doubt this is normal, and I know this probably isn't a good sign but I can't see it having the symptoms above (not directly anyway).

[ikhan]

Happened again this morning. I tried the spare key, but to no effect. I think I have narrowed it down to 2 separate problems, but obviously not sure if these alone are causing these symptoms. Air is definitely getting into the fuel - there were largish air pockets in the fuel line, which I tried to pump out. The car started on the second attempt, but it sounded pretty bad. I think I have a stuck valve or something. I switched the car off and started it again. Sounded the same for about 10 seconds and then quietened down. I have made a couple of video's which I will try to upload in a short while.

[ikhan]

Ok, I don't think the video's quite do this justice, but in the first video below you can just about see the bubbles in the clear pipe, and can hear the 'knocking' noise - it's quite distinct:




The second video below is a 2nd attempted start and the car is quieter (doesn't seem much quieter in the video, but in real life it is running smoother and no knocking):




I'm thinking of trying a double flush for this, but not sure what is involved (i.e. any chemicals?). Also, where should I start to address the bubbles in the fuel?

[AlexB]

Down on power until restarted - try the OBD. There are different levels of limp-home. Yes, it looks like an electric fault. If the central locking does not get confirmation that the engine is stopped and the speed is zero, then the locks will not operate.

The sound from the engine is not too bad; this can wait.

Is it the clear pipe in the video? Mine is properly see-through clear in 1.9dci.

[ikhan]

Thank Alex - will get an OBD on it this coming week, and yes it is the clear pipe (probably needs a clean but I don't think its totally clear on this car)

[ikhan]

I've ordered an ELM327 but I think it's safe to say that I now know why the car doesn't start, or rather, why on occasions it starts and then stalls and then will not restart - with this becoming more severe and more frequent....

I was initially going to check the glowplugs, so having got my multimeter out, I soon realised that my engine setup was somewhat different and required quite a bit of dismantling to get to them, so I thought I'd just prime the pump and get her going instead as she refused to start last night in a similar fashion (and wait for the ELM and / or book the car to a garage). I was thinking of checking the fuel filter connections as well, but the car being as low as it is and on my drive, I didn't have much access so I was avoiding that.

Upon operating the priming bulb, I noticed it was very soft, but got hard(er) after three or four pumps. I also noticed a smear of fuel on one finger, but despite cleaning and pumping away, I could not reproduce or seen any leaks. I then heard a slight a 'gushy' noise (well, if I'm honest, it sounded more like a wet fart). Looking around, I couldn't see any obvious leaks, so I set about looking at the filter. I didn't have to go very far - the inspection cover in the driver's wheel arch was pretty much soaked (car on a slight incline) - diesel is obviously leaking out and letting air in. I'm not sure if the filter itself is leaking or the unions (I haven't checked) but I need to get this sorted. Once this is done, I think the engine will need a double flush to sort that slight 'knocking' sound out.

Any idea's on exactly what or which part are favourites for leaks around that area (filter was changed about 18 months ago)?

[ikhan]

My ELM327 has picked up some real weird codes:

Latest Code:

P0381 - Glow plug / heater indicator circuit malfunction


Other Codes:

P0303 - Cylinder 3 misfire detected (really? on a diesel?)

C3500 - No description available

C0010 - Left front inlet control (subfault)

U06AA - ?

[AlexB]

OK, looking up these codes in the factory workshop manual...

"DF025 0381 Pre-postheating unit fault finding connection"

The wording is different, which means you did not open the manual and, therefore, do not know which wires and on what connectors to test. The same is probably with the other codes. Please have a look in the manual first.

In a diesel misfire is also possible. It is related to the injectors and detected as a significant variation in the rotational speed of the crankshaft.

OBD C-codes are for the chassis (ESP, etc.) and U-codes are likely to have something to do with the CAN bus or other electronics.

[ikhan]

Thanks Alex - I did have a look at a manual, but I couldn't find these. Any particular manual I should be looking at (there's a fair few manuals and I don't know where to start).

Also, I'm wondering if the car's ECU has been changed at some point - my car doesn't have ESP etc. and I think one of the codes refers to a problem with it...

EDIT - found the manual relating to the P0381 code.

[AlexB]

There is no standard on the chassis codes, because only the emissions were originally regulated by the law. So, apart from p-codes, all others are manufacturer-specific. There is not much in your chassis which is electronically controlled: ABS, ESP (which you don't have), steering, etc. Clip will give you more details, but in many cases one can just guess. Are you sure the code is not c0035, which is an ABS sensor (if I'm not mistaken, check this)?

In any case, it looks like preheating and an injector are playing up, unless there is a compression problem in one cylinder as well.

[ikhan]

Thanks Alex - reading up on the internet, I did initially think the code might be C0035. This would make more sense because after my clutch was changed, the ABS sensor on the NSF became unplugged which threw the ABS light on but the light went out as soon at the sensor was plugged back in and the car was moved. I checked the screenshot I took of the codes, but it was definitely showing C3500.

I used a different app and that only showed the P0381 and not the others. I've cleared the code for now to see if it comes back or not. So far, the car has been starting perfectly (even before the code was cleared) and I've only pushed the pipes on the filter on a bit tighter (only by feel).

I'm slightly worried though by the P0381 fault code - I had a rat get into my engine bay over the winter and it ate the relay wire to my HID's as well as most of the battery sleeve, so I'm wondering if it did more extensive damage (i.e. to plug B on the injection unit).

[AlexB]

It can be a problem with the application which displays C3500. I can't remember the internal format of OBD: it's possible that the number is two bytes, which can be read in different orders by big and little endian processors. If the software is ported into an architecture of the opposite endianness and the code is never used in testing, then a confusion may happen. Anyway, it's the chassis code, which can be historical rather than active.

It's quite obvious what to do with the damage caused by the rat. Spend a couple of hours on a sunny afternoon (with a bottle of ice-cold beer at hand), remove the undertray, bumper, battery, check all wires and connectors visually. Repair any damage to wire insulation, as it may cause corrosion of the wires inside.

I have no experience with the fuel line connectors, they never failed on me. Presumably they have seals inside which may not be seated properly and then "find" a better position upon fiddling with them. Have you tried pulling the connector after pushing it? This is to make sure it is located and locked properly. Check the fuel line for abrasions and rat damage as well.